Ten Years of Banned Smoking in England

PipesMagazine Approved Sponsor

Log in

Search on Site

PipesMagazine Approved Sponsor

Recent Posts

PipesMagazine Approved Sponsor

Status
Not open for further replies.

jpberg

Preferred Member
Aug 30, 2011
988
55
I'd laugh at the ludicrous situation that the U.K. and EU have put themselves in, but I live in New York, so I'll empathize instead.

 

oldmansmoking

Preferred Member
May 13, 2017
550
6
UK
Studies of non-smokers who are married to non-smokers show considerably higher rates of heart disease, respiratory problems and a whole smorgasbord of cancers. I’m sorry, but they just do.
I think he was ment to have said non-smokers who are married to smokers!!

I agree with the ban, but feel any further atemt to ban smoking should be fought against. Enough is enough.

I don't agree with plan packing of tobacco products.

If we as adults wish to smoke we should be able to. But not in restaurants or pubs.

 

forsooth

Member
Feb 18, 2011
151
0
The writer of the article states, "But the evidence seems to suggest that the effect on public health has been substantial. Rates of smoking-related cancers are down..."
According to UK cancer stats from www.cancerresearchuk.org, the writer's comments seem a bit wobbly, as they say. For example:
"Over the last decade in the UK (between 2003-2005 and 2012-2014), lung cancer AS incidence rates have increased by 4% for males and females combined..." (Highest increase for females.)
"Over the last decade in the UK (between 2003-2005 and 2012-2014), oesophageal cancer AS incidence rates have remained stable for males and females combined..."
"Over the last decade, head and neck cancer incidence rates have increased by almost a quarter (23%) in the UK, with a larger increase in females (27%) than in males (19%)."

 

deathmetal

Preferred Member
Jul 21, 2015
7,724
0
The big secret will come out some day, which is that most cancers are related to industrial pollution. Smoking is a convenient scapegoat; certainly it is likely that inhaling any kind of particulate smoke will increase the risk, but for whatever reason, the blame is over-stated in my view.

 

warren

Preferred Member
Sep 13, 2013
7,351
32
If we as adults wish to smoke we should be able to.
We are, of course, allowed to smoke. We are just restricted as to where. Further, smokers can fight new regulations and laws all we want. All we have to do is organize enough voters to have an impact. Lotsa luck with that!
I agree with the ban, but feel any further atemt (sic) to ban smoking should be fought against.
Organizing smokers into a cohesive voting bloc with sufficient monies for the requisite ads, staff salaries, phones, political donations, etc., when smokers come from all different political viewpoints, is an impossible chore. There is a reason political discussions are not permitted on the various fora. One would have to find one hell of a lot of "single issue" voters as the abortion crowd did. Of course they turned the issue into one about a "woman's right to choose." So, perhaps smokers could turn the issue into a "person's right to choose"... smoking? That dawg won't hunt!
I think it should be up to the business-owner. Doesn't seem unreasonable.
Leaving it up to the business owner is a thought. In some areas of the country though, the owner would have to have the various unions agree that he could hire only from a list of members who wish to work in a smoking establishment and, not simply from the top of the list. Labor unions are not going to force members to take employment in what is now viewed and unhealthy environment.
As to pubs closing because of the ban, Ireland has not experienced such, the closings there are more rightly attributed economics and, the stricter enforcement of drunk driving laws, coupled with stiffer penalties. One no longer sees big farm tractors parked at a pub. A lot more bicycles though.
We smokers are but a tiny percentage of the electorate. We are not a "protected" minority. So, we will just have to suck it up and suffer the indignity of standing in the rain, huddled under a heater if lucky, and enjoy our tiny society outside the bars and pubs. Soon, even that wee pleasure will cease as more jurisdictions adopt such rules as "no smoking with in fifty feet of a business", and other such laws.
You young smokers are in for some tough times indeed, should you wish to pursue your wee vice anyplace but in your own, detached, single family dwelling. And, soon you will have to own your dwelling as lenders aren't going to want to finance a home which they may have fumigate and repaint if they have to foreclose and then sell to recoup their moneys.

 

aldecaker

Preferred Member
Feb 13, 2015
4,413
3
I'm not real sold on "enough voters to have an impact" having anything to do with anything. With everything from the Whisky Rebellion to Obamacare and many, many issues in between, the government has done exactly what the majority of voters expressly did not want. Majority rules, unless it's not okay with Uncle Sam.

 

warren

Preferred Member
Sep 13, 2013
7,351
32
No, I think the elected ones do what they know they can get away with while furthering their agenda. Job loss scares even the most entrenched of politicians.
Voters have short memories, even shorter attention spans, and many are quite gullible, sell their votes cheaply, as well as being "single issue," and/or are ill informed. As I've said before, "We get exactly what we vote for." And, remember, it's not what the majority wants, it's what the majority of voters want, excepting presidential elections and other elections where the largest vote attainer, often without 50% is the "winner." Many eligible people are not registered to vote and many voters choose not to exercise their franchise. It's not as though the entire population is involved in the governing of our country, the USA. The "will" of the people is determined by those who vote and, all too often, skewed polling results.

 

deathmetal

Preferred Member
Jul 21, 2015
7,724
0
Voters have short memories, even shorter attention spans, and many are quite gullible, sell their votes cheaply, as well as being "single issue," and/or are ill informed. As I've said before, "We get exactly what we vote for." And, remember, it's not what the majority wants, it's what the majority of voters want, excepting presidential elections and other elections where the largest vote attainer, often without 50% is the "winner."
Perhaps even a simple plurality will suffice in many cases. Good observations. Part of that "responsibility" thing is to have people realize who holds the power, and in a democracy, it is the voters, so we have no one to blame but ourselves (and we will blame each other).

 

perdurabo

Preferred Member
Jun 3, 2015
2,789
37
Dug this up from the grave, rlunderhill. Do they sit on their hands in your State? .

 

lazar

Senior Member
May 5, 2015
446
0
I would like to see some evidence of pubs closing because of the smoking ban. Everything I've ever read attributes it to changing tastes in drinking and culture - including drinking less, more wine and cocktails and less beer, clubs taking the place of pubs, pubs no longer being places for entire families to go together, and regular price increases. Plus the fact that smokers have now taken over pretty much all outdoor spaces in pubs - with heaters and shelters provided. For non-smokers at pubs, outdoors is the new indoors. It's impossible to sit outside at a pub without being in a cloud of rank cigarette smoke.

 

deathmetal

Preferred Member
Jul 21, 2015
7,724
0
Western Civilization is dying, but the UK and Sweden are rushing for the first place in failure.

 

brian64

Preferred Member
Jan 31, 2011
5,141
34
Western Civilization is dying, but the UK and Sweden are rushing for the first place in failure.
The U.S. can't be far behind when you have stories such as the recent vote by the Denver city council to decriminalize defecating and urinating on public sidewalks.

 

bonanzadriver

Senior Member
Nov 28, 2016
477
0
It all smacks of despotic nanny state intelegentsia run amuck. Definitely something for those among us that tend to sympathize with the group think de jour and are buying what main stream media is manufacturing day in and day out.
In other words, Elections have Consequences... What that article so adroitly illustrates, as well as what we have all been experiencing here with the illegal / unconstitutional "Deeming" acts of the FDA, is that we all need to think through our choices and actions, being prepared to accept the consequences.
We can't just willy nilly elect folks without doing our due diligence and vetting these folks, otherwise we're gonna see a whole lot more of this bullsh!t coming from not only the beltway, but our states as well.
In the end, outlawing smoking in public spaces is an illegal act. It presupposes that the rights of some folks is greater than those of others, due in large part to the simple fact of having the political favor of whatever administration is in power.
If I am a business owner and want to allow my patrons to smoke in my establishment, I should be able to do so... Knowing full well that this might offend the sensibilities of "Tobacco Deniers" and therefore willing to suffer any financial consequences as a result of their "non-patronage".
For a "Tobacco Denier" to demand that someone cease enjoying their tobacco, based solely on the "Denier's" Self Appointed "Offendedness", is no different than a person barging into an establishment that decided not to allow smoking, and demand that they be allowed to do so, feigning equal offendedness.
We can't have it both ways folks. We can't eat our cake and have it too, or to paraphrase Benjamin Franklin... "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
YMMV
Dino

 

jpmcwjr

Preferred Member
May 12, 2015
13,533
135
Monterey Peninsula
In my travels in the US, there might as well be a federal ban on smoking in restaurants and bars as well as offices. Most states have similar bans- or perhaps they're local ones. I haven't seen anyone light up inside for years.
Here're the opening sentences:
Last Saturday was the tenth anniversary of the introduction in England of a ban on smoking in enclosed public workplaces. I had a walk-on part in the drama of the ban: as a clerk on the House of Commons Health Committee, I drafted its report on the Government’s proposed legislation, which made a number of recommendations, largely for a more comprehensive and draconian ban, without the exemptions the Government had intended to enshrine in the law.
 

warren

Preferred Member
Sep 13, 2013
7,351
32
Some pubs in Ireland consider the ban to be the cause of closing. When your clientele is predominately farmers, pipe or cigarette in hand and they start doing their drinking at home, revenues dry up. These are small family holdings and were dependent on the neighboring farmers for most of their revenue.
rlunderhill: Are you equating weed to tobacco? Can you point out the equivalency please?

 
Status
Not open for further replies.