Syrian Latakia Is Gone ... Forever
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This is particularly frustrating. I can't reveal from who I got the information because it would compromise his situation, his life. So he can't come forward with hard evidence. Believe what you will and if you don't believe me pull open a tin of 3 Oaks Syrian and a recent one of HH vintage Syrian or any German made blends that claims to have Syrian latakia and compare them.
Look at it this way. Sure, I know the wood situation. But wood grows back. Once things calm down over there, people will be looking for economic growth. You don't think there is a market for Syrian Latakia anymore? So you say the market is smaller. Even better! Easier to fulfill! Now its a lost art. Nah, some few still know how to do it, it's not like they haven't done it in a hundred years. And they will be looking for a way to make money.
But I have no doubt there is some truth to what arno is telling us.
Point being that let us say that Cyprus Latakia had been invented first and we were now fretting its discontinuation and loss, then the Syrians came along with theirs to replace it! The way I look at it is never fret too much over a discontinued blend (like Dunhill) or Syr. Latakia too much because more than likely, something will come along to fill the void, and you never know, it might be even better!
There are infinite possibilities in tobacco. Look at all of the "lost blends" of yesteryear, all the old tins you guys show pictures of. Now go pick up a catalog from Smoking Pipes or P&C filled with thousands of great new choices. Tobacco ain't going anywhere, but the market evolves. It can only support so much. Some old blends must go by the wayside to make room for the new. I never fret what has been but look forward to what will be!
But I have no doubt there is some truth to what arno is telling us.
Point being that let us say that Cyprus Latakia had been invented first and we were now fretting its discontinuation and loss, then the Syrians came along with theirs to replace it! The way I look at it is never fret too much over a discontinued blend (like Dunhill) or Syr. Latakia too much because more than likely, something will come along to fill the void, and you never know, it might be even better!
There are infinite possibilities in tobacco. Look at all of the "lost blends" of yesteryear, all the old tins you guys show pictures of. Now go pick up a catalog from Smoking Pipes or P&C filled with thousands of great new choices. Tobacco ain't going anywhere, but the market evolves. It can only support so much. Some old blends must go by the wayside to make room for the new. I never fret what has been but look forward to what will be!
[Believe what you will and if you don't believe me pull open a tin of 3 Oaks Syrian and a recent one of HH vintage Syrian or any German made blends that claims to have Syrian latakia and compare them.]
The question is what is the cutting time HH Vintage Syrian had no more Syrian, 2017,2016,2015 or when?
The question is what is the cutting time HH Vintage Syrian had no more Syrian, 2017,2016,2015 or when?
Well, it still has some Syrian, but it is mixed with Cyprian to such an extent that the taste is compromised. I think it build up gradually through the years. I once did a 3 Oaks Syrian - HH Vintage Syrian comparison on my blog and that Vintage Syrian tin came from 2011. It could be that some other (German) blends also still have some shreds of Syrian in them but in all cases that is so little that you won't notice it taste-wise.
I am far from an expert, but if the allegation that is being made is true, it would seem that MacBarens and Sutliff are in violation of the Lanham Act. There are likely similar laws in the EU. This thread is spreading a serious allegation against two companies that are, as far as I know, reputable.
The question is, whether HH Vintage Syrian has been "cut" at all. Unsubstantiated claims are simply that, unsubstantiated claims. Personally, I don't really care, as my stocks are all 5-6 years old. And I quite like the taste of Latakia that has aged.
That said, I'm not a fan of rumors. They're popular with people, but rumors aren't facts.
[The question is what is the cutting time HH Vintage Syrian had no more Syrian, 2017,2016,2015 or when?
The question is, whether HH Vintage Syrian has been "cut" at all. Unsubstantiated claims are simply that, unsubstantiated claims. Personally, I don't really care, as my stocks are all 5-6 years old. And I quite like the taste of Latakia that has aged.
That said, I'm not a fan of rumors. They're popular with people, but rumors aren't facts.]
I absolutely agree rumors are not facts and this is the point I am trying to make. We are hearing some clear cuts sentences but when trying to get any specific out of them they stay all vague and no specific come out. Everything is possible but it should not sold for sure something vague.
The question is, whether HH Vintage Syrian has been "cut" at all. Unsubstantiated claims are simply that, unsubstantiated claims. Personally, I don't really care, as my stocks are all 5-6 years old. And I quite like the taste of Latakia that has aged.
That said, I'm not a fan of rumors. They're popular with people, but rumors aren't facts.]
I absolutely agree rumors are not facts and this is the point I am trying to make. We are hearing some clear cuts sentences but when trying to get any specific out of them they stay all vague and no specific come out. Everything is possible but it should not sold for sure something vague.
This thread started out in language that conveyed a factual derogatory assertion, not an opinion such as "I can't taste the claimed ingredient in the blend.". It has continued in that vein. Disturbing.
Food for thought, I have experienced on a couple of occasions where examples of blends that are accepted to be 'Syrian Latakia only' have come across as tasting like a Cyp/Syr blend, or where the Syrian flavor was being affected a bit. My '14 tin of Syrian Star got this way I think due to me checking the tin note too much, and my tin of '15 3 Oaks Syrian seemed a little different than earlier or later years, I think due to the VAs being a little different/younger that year, or something along those lines. Smoking some '16 Syrian Star and some '14 and '16 3 Oaks Syrian restored my faith that these blends contain Syrian only, and other things must have affected the Syrian Taste in the other jars/tins. :
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I'm under the impression that any Syrian leaf left, or used in the last handful of years, wasn't harvested recently. The stuff lost to fire in 2004 was discovered in a warehouse somewhere prior to that.
Mac Barens syrian could have been sitting around for decades for all I know, gradually fading as Latakia tends to do.
I believe that's a big part of the reason that Syrian in Vintage Syrian tastes muted or cut.
Mac Barens syrian could have been sitting around for decades for all I know, gradually fading as Latakia tends to do.
I believe that's a big part of the reason that Syrian in Vintage Syrian tastes muted or cut.
There hasn't been a crop in well over a decade. All stocks date from then. The 2004 warehouse fire you're referring to destroyed Greg Pease's supply of premium Syrain Latakia. It did not destroy the industry's supply.
Probably more than a decade, but under ideal conditions, Latakia's lifespan can be prolonged. Personally, I like the flavor of Latakias that have faded somewhat.
I offer my opinion from smoking a lot of 3 Oaks Syrian and HH Vintage Syrian. My most recent tin of HH Vintage Syrian does not taste like pure Syrian latakia. It has the sharper taste of Cyprian latakia. This is my opinion, I don't pretend to be an expert or have secret blend knowledge. May God have mercy on my soul.....
[I offer my opinion from smoking a lot of 3 Oaks Syrian and HH Vintage Syrian. My most recent tin of HH Vintage Syrian does not taste like pure Syrian latakia. It has the sharper taste of Cyprian latakia.]
I cannot comment about pre 2014 HH Vintage Syrian but yes, they taste different from 3 Oaks Syrian but they are also a different blend and notably they have Kentucky which 3 Oaks does not have. I don't know if the Kentucky can explain the sharper taste of the HH Vintage.
I cannot comment about pre 2014 HH Vintage Syrian but yes, they taste different from 3 Oaks Syrian but they are also a different blend and notably they have Kentucky which 3 Oaks does not have. I don't know if the Kentucky can explain the sharper taste of the HH Vintage.
So, the real question of this thread seems to be ... how do I get a job as a shuttle boat captain in Turkey?
Put me in the camp of trusting some people's palates over what a manufacturer says who (manufacturers of any industry) are known to fib time and again. I wouldn't be surprised if they purposely overestimated the supply several years ago and said they had more than they did ...
Put me in the camp of trusting some people's palates over what a manufacturer says who (manufacturers of any industry) are known to fib time and again. I wouldn't be surprised if they purposely overestimated the supply several years ago and said they had more than they did ...
Still an assertion, not a fact. I know a lot of people with well developed palates and they will disagree about aspects of what they have tasted. In this instance my question would be, based on the above quote, has anyone caught Per Jensen lying about his product. Because, that's what is being suggested here.
@ sablebbrush52. Exactly my point
@jfvnshr I never said I was offended. I found this thread disturbing for the reason stated. I have tried HH Syrian Latakia, and it is OK, but it is not even close to the top of my reorder list. I made a moderator aware of my concerns days ago. Some of the posts in this thread flat out accuse MacBarens/Sutliff of false advertising. That may or may not be libel per se. It has been several decades since I took the Torts course, and I never practiced in that field. I hope Sutliff's lawyers do not become aware of this thread. Offended? Not in the least. Disturbed was precisely the feeling I meant to convey, and that is why I used that particular word.
@jfvnshr I never said I was offended. I found this thread disturbing for the reason stated. I have tried HH Syrian Latakia, and it is OK, but it is not even close to the top of my reorder list. I made a moderator aware of my concerns days ago. Some of the posts in this thread flat out accuse MacBarens/Sutliff of false advertising. That may or may not be libel per se. It has been several decades since I took the Torts course, and I never practiced in that field. I hope Sutliff's lawyers do not become aware of this thread. Offended? Not in the least. Disturbed was precisely the feeling I meant to convey, and that is why I used that particular word.
Indeed an assertion, I'll not deny that. I am making no disparaging remarks about someone I do not know, Per Jensen (well, I'm not trying to, lol), but I certainly am not naïve enough to think that anyone high up in a corporate structure has honesty and yours and my best interest in mind. They have THEIR best interest in mind, first and foremost, which is to keep their job and continue to get pay raises. That interest of theirs (the overall ultimate interest of maximum profit by the company), sometimes, can lead one to bend the truth. It is Human Nature.
Solani is still printing Syrian Latakia as a component of English Luxury Mixture, yet they no longer have any Syrian, it would seem? I would hardly hold other Tobacco Mfgs to a different standard than Solani, or any other random mfg.
Palates are indeed overrated, too, as taste is so subjective. I'll bet, though, there are palates out there that most definitely can tell the difference between Syrian and Cypriot. That ain't my palate, though, as mine is more in tune with Virginias, and Latakia tastes like Latakia to me. I'll bet those palates are fewer than people would want to admit (a Latakia enthusiast would prefer to think they can tell the difference). It is the palates that cannot tell the difference, which I would be willing to bet is the majority of pipe smokers, where the money is made in calling Cypriot Syrian. I am NOT saying that is what MacBarren is doing, merely I think it silly to not consider all of that when wondering, "Am I really smoking Syrian Latakia here, as the label says?"
I understand your point, and am not really taking any issue with it. Perhaps my perspective comes from the 'once bitten, twice shy' camp as a general rule when evaluating such subjects as 'truthfulness from the mouths of Corporate Executives'.
The onus is upon them (guys like Per Jensen) to prove they are selling what they advertise, as there seems to be talk amongst some pipe smokers that they have been lied to recently, to some extent. Certainly with an issue like this (the end of a well, well liked and respected tobacco variety) and as nothing more than keeping their customer base informed for good customer service. There aren't that many places that pipe smokers congregate on the web. Any mfgs that don't spend 30 minutes a week scanning this forum is not utilizing all of their marketing channels, nor expressing much interest in what all ya'll think. We and our cellars are just spreadsheet numbers to them.
Companies do NOT start in a position of automatic trust with me. That's because money is involved. This is a serious issue in the pipe smoking world (the disappearance of tobacco types). Per has my automatic trust when I see he, or others (I know a couple blenders post here), actually address the issue when it crops up in places like this. It would take 2 minutes. As far as Per is concerned, an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure concerning his credibility. It's like the Dunhill stuff (last time I looked at posts here about it) - we find out about it here from a guy from Lane. Dunhill doesn't really care about you or I, and you and I don't mean that much more to Per, I suspect ...
Again, I am certainly not trying to argue with you or anyone about it. Just rambling on a forum.
And, I still wanna know how to get that job on a boat in Turkey ...
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