Ser Jacopo Question - With Pics

[agnosticpipe]

I just picked up an older Ser Jacopo pipe, and the seller listed it as a ivory dot, saying it was lower quality pipe in their early days. Pipehil. calls them grey dots and says they were bottom of the range pipes. I've never heard of this in all the reading I've done on them. I have read that the grey/pink dots were from the earlier pipes, and that the shade of the coral dot ranges from red to pink. The only lower range of pipes that Ser Jacopo makes to my knowledge is the Gepetto line, which aren't too shabby and are very nice pipes. So here's some pics of the pipe I got, it is stamped R1, so is it a coral dot? I can't think of anything else it could be. Truth is, no matter what, it's still a great smoking pipe that cost less than $100 and takes the pipe cleaner all the way to the bowl with ease.

 

[dmcmtk]

Nice looking pipe, and pipephil does indeed cite it with an image.

Grey dot on the mouthpiece. This sign was the first the brand used on the stems of its bottom-of-the-range pipes.

Please note there is a difference between "lower quality" and "bottom-of-the-range". Also the R1, again from pipephil, refers to the finish.

Rusticated pipes: R1 (dark brown) R2 (light brown)

At some point, I'm guessing Ser Jacopo just started using the coral dot on all these pipes. So yours is not a second. I wonder if that's Mother of Pearl.
One might even say, that because of the use of the not as often seen dot, it's an example early production, and quite rare. :wink:

 

[oldgeezersmoker]

Pipephil says grey dots were used on "bottom of the range". That doesn't equate to a second. I have seen maybe a half dozen of these, all rusticated, and they are absolutely not seconds. The Geppetto line came along in the late 90's, and is also not a second. The distinctions are explained on the Marble Arch site. I am not 100% sure when they started the Le Fuma designation, but my understanding is that they may have fissures and possibly fills. These are not carried by the official US importer, Marble Arch, they are readily available in Europe. I have only actually held a couple of these in my hand, and the workmanship was everything you could expect from a first quality Ser Jacopo product. Both had noticeable fissures, no putty, but I know someone who has one with , he says, a very small fill. I have seen several on eBay with spectacular silver work.
To confuse the situation even more, I have in my current rotation a sandblast panel that is stamped Ser Jacopo on the bottom, has the silver J logo on the top of the stem, but lacks the phrase fatto a mano. It has the name of an Italian shop stamped on the bottom. It may or may not be machine turned, since Guidi could turn out standard shapes by the bushel without using a copy lathe if he so desired. I have seen two other SJ's on eBay that are similar and have different shop names and shapes.
Finally, if I have not succeeded in completely confusing you, we now have the Ser Jacopo Modica. It has what I call a faux Coral Dot, very similar to the first Coral Dot iteration that lacked the silver circle. I have not personally examined any of these. Again, the US importer does not carry them. I have sseen these listed on eBay as being from the Coral Dot era. They most definitely are not.
Everything I have listed above has the Ser Jacopo name. In my book, none are seconds, for that reason. They fit into different slots in different markets.

 

[mso489]

I've had high and low pipes from particular brands and have found that the lower priced pipes are sometimes as good or better.

 

[oldgeezersmoker]

Eliminated duplicate post

 

[oldgeezersmoker]

mso489, back in the 90's a friend of mine and I were customers of an Italian shop, not in Rome or Milan and even today with a very rudimentary web presence. But the owners selection of pipes was as spectacular as anyone's, at least in part because he functioned as more or less the cruise director for one of the largest and most active regional pipe clubs in Italy. Among other things they did was go on field trips to the various makers.
At any rate, my friend took a vacation to Italy and specifically arranged to spend time with this club, which had arranged a dinner (all Italian pipe and cigar clubs meet over food) where Franco Coppo, the man himself, the major domo behind Castello's, was the co guest of honor. While lingering over the last of the meal, after some reasonably sufficient quantity of alcohol had been consumed, pipes were produced. My friend pulled out a Sea Rock 16 from the 1970's,and before he could fill it, Coppo asked to see it. He looked it over, explained what all of the nomenclature meant,and complemented my friend on how well he had kept it. As he handed it back he said, "Of course, we all know the roughs smoke better than the smooths."
My friend had spent, I am sure, well into five figures on Collections, Collection Greatlines and Fiamattas in the preceding year with that shop owner.

 

[josephcross]

Nice pipe, Ive been wanting to pick up a Jacopo at some point, if I can find an estate at the right price.

 

[dmcmtk]

oldgeezersmoker, two great posts!

 

[oldgeezersmoker]

A link explaining the differences of the Gepetto line
I have owned two Gepettos, both straights, both excellent pipes.

 

[oldgeezersmoker]

Pipestud looked at this and told me that the original release Ser Jacopos had the Coral Dot in silver, then they went to the plain Coral Dot. There are statements out there on the web to the contrary, but he might be right now that I ponder it. In any event, the grey dots are from the early days.

 

[jpmcwjr]

Old, new or in between, that's one fine looking pipe!

 

[agnosticpipe]

I want to thank all who posted information here. Clearly there is no sure answer to what the pink dot on my pipe is. I doesn't appear to be a grey dot, and I have a hard time seeing why that would be an indicator of a lower range of pipes, or some form of grading system. This seems like speculation to me as the grey dot on pipephil shows it on a smooth pipe not a rusticated one, and it has the stamp of L1, the only grading system Ser Jacopo seems to use, referring to the quality of the grain. As pointed out, the other letters and numbers refer to the finishes on the rusticated and sandblasted pipes. Pipephil also shows a pic of a very lightly colored dot saying the the coral dots came in different shades. I'm of the opinion that coral itself comes in different colors and while Ser Jacopo may have started out with lighter colors, they eventually stayed with the all red.
Sorry if I seem to be too argumentative, I just wanted to know what the pink dot represented, if anything. Like other pipe makers, stampings, dots, bands and grading systems can get very confusing as the makers themselves change them over the years without a lot of explanation. Some things will just remain to be a mystery. So like jpmcwjr said, "old, new or in-between, that's one fine looking pipe". I agree, and it is a great smoking pipe too. ::

 

[pipestud]

I just wanted to know what the pink dot represented, if anything. Like other pipe makers, stampings, dots, bands and grading systems can get very confusing as the makers themselves change them over the years without a lot of explanation. - Orley"
Bottom line; who knows? may just be a thing as simple as SJ getting new rod stock acrylic (maybe from a different distributor) that varied a bit on the color.