Early on amd not quite knowing what you are tasting would be wasted on extremely expensive tobacco and it's hard to really call those benchmarks. Good quality but a far cry from benchmarks.
Rare (Or getting There) Tobaccos
- Thread starter alaskanpiper
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As with my pipes, I buy tobacco for one reason -- to smoke. If it's *old* 3 Nuns, crack it now. If it's *new* 3 Nuns, same thing. Some things (& I'm one of the ones who say it) are legendary, even mythic, & if you've got 'em, great. But one shouldn't spend one's life searching for the legendary at the cost of bypassing excellent tobaccos that are fortunately not in short supply. Carpe Smokem.
Bill
To you these are benchmarks. There are no absolutes when it comes to ANYTHING related to pipes and tobaccos.
Equally full disclosure, I’ve enjoyed smoking pipes for 48, almost 49 years. I smoked Balkan Sobranie when it was made by Sobranie, Dunhill blends that were actually made by Dunhill, British blends actually made by Brits in different factories with different owners, Rattray’s blended in Perth, actual real Escudo and great blends made in-house by local tobacconists with palettes and loads of experience because we had that availability. Your benchmarks are not my benchmarks.
FMC was what it was, a popular bridge for entering the world of English blends and there are other choices available, like Black Frigate, that aren’t deceased, don’t empty ones pockets, and which still have a future. I tried FMC and it really put me off McClelland for a while, but I’m fussy about English/Balkan/Oriental blends. I’ve never fallen under Penzance’s spell. Much as I wanted to like it, I’ve found it poorly balanced, not a bad blend, not a great one either, but good for a cheap bulk, which is what it is. Scarcity has bestowed a status upon it that it didn’t formerly enjoy. Neither of them are superior blends from my perspective, though both of them are influential for other reasons.
There are great choices available at “normal” retail that do not constitute a consolation prize.
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If there is one absolute in tobacco it is what sable just said: “There are no absolutes when it comes to ANYTHING related to pipes and tobaccos”.
Smokers that have a memory repertoire have a different perspective than those newer to smoking pipes. I agree that Penzance is not all that. It is decent and I own quite a bit of it. I believe that, I value it more for its potential future trade value when the tobacco world goes totally to Hell than for its current smoking pleasure. I spent a great deal of my life in the KC area and sold McClelland blends when most of the pipe world paid little attention to them. They were always a quality product but, I never fell in love with any of them. I am not saying this to be critical, just to give a perspective that concurs with sable’s message. The lack of availability adds to the legends of tobaccos.
I am currently smoking some 1982 Dunhill Elizabethan that I have ‘hanging around’. Recent discussion about old Dunhill (Murray’s), STG Dunhill, and Matches has prompted me to do a ‘go back’ compare and contrast on this and some 1982 Nightcap to those current Matches. I plan to post something in reviews in the near future.
Smokers that have a memory repertoire have a different perspective than those newer to smoking pipes. I agree that Penzance is not all that. It is decent and I own quite a bit of it. I believe that, I value it more for its potential future trade value when the tobacco world goes totally to Hell than for its current smoking pleasure. I spent a great deal of my life in the KC area and sold McClelland blends when most of the pipe world paid little attention to them. They were always a quality product but, I never fell in love with any of them. I am not saying this to be critical, just to give a perspective that concurs with sable’s message. The lack of availability adds to the legends of tobaccos.
I am currently smoking some 1982 Dunhill Elizabethan that I have ‘hanging around’. Recent discussion about old Dunhill (Murray’s), STG Dunhill, and Matches has prompted me to do a ‘go back’ compare and contrast on this and some 1982 Nightcap to those current Matches. I plan to post something in reviews in the near future.
Nothing like Embers incredible stash, but I have enough of my discontinued old favorites to bid them fond farewells over time, so I would not spend extra to stockpile into the unforeseeable future. And the reason I'm not smoking them up on a regular basis is that I keep ordering in small quantities or being sent samples of terrific new blends or blends I just haven't tried before, which makes me feel like too much mooning after tobaccos of times gone by is wasted energy. I have a contentious preference for blends that remain available; are produced so that the supply meets the demand; and are widely and generally distributed. Those who make those blends have respect and good feeling toward their customers. I enjoy those unicorn blends from time to time, but not to distraction. If someone else feels happy paying $200 for a 1.75 ounce tin of discontinued blend, more power to them; not me. When I smoke up that tin of Royal Yacht, I'll enjoy it like the last one, but I won't go into mourning.
Yep, as someone who IS early on in my pipe smoking journey, that's pretty much been my philosophy. I've tried a lot of different types of tobacco, but from everything I read there are lots of very good examples of all styles in production right now, and at reasonable prices. I'd rather just try those rather than track down any rare ones.
Knowing what I know now I’d say a new piper is better served by sampling widely. Figure out what you like first.
There’ll always be unicorns to chase. Hell, at some point 2019 1-Q may be a unicorn fetching $50 an ounce.
If you’re young enough you just have to wait for us old farts to keel over and our spouses to sell our cellars. Lots of unicorns available then.
There’ll always be unicorns to chase. Hell, at some point 2019 1-Q may be a unicorn fetching $50 an ounce.
If you’re young enough you just have to wait for us old farts to keel over and our spouses to sell our cellars. Lots of unicorns available then.
I tend to agree with both Cigarmaster and Sable. However, on the whole, I can't imagine being new in the hobby and shelling out the money for blends that you may or may not like. I do think that there are plenty of 'benchmark' blends that you can get your hands on now to see if you like specific components/mixtures/blenders.
As a different tact, I'd recommend going to pipe clubs, shows and generally participating in forums. Oftentimes, you will get to sample these blends for free and can make a determination for yourself. The last pipe club meeting I was at, I gave away some Frog Morton and Red and Black so others could try
As a different tact, I'd recommend going to pipe clubs, shows and generally participating in forums. Oftentimes, you will get to sample these blends for free and can make a determination for yourself. The last pipe club meeting I was at, I gave away some Frog Morton and Red and Black so others could try
I have been smoking pipes for more than 30 years now. I have stashed lots of blends that are unobtanium now, but I paid retail price for them because they were available. I bought them because I liked them and stashed them because pipe tobacco distribution in Spain has always been bumpy. At that time it seemed impossible that tobacco was at risk of been legislated into non existence.
Now it seems a very probable outcome. Let me say again the little secret many of the forum members have told you in this thread: there are excellent tobaccos currently made and, living as you do in the US they are currently available to you at the best prices in the world, absolute and, of course, relative to median income. I don´t smoke aromatics, so I will not comment on them but you have available, readily and at great prices:
The MacBaren HH line; I have still to try one of that line that, in my opinion, is not excellent.
GL Pease tobaccos.
The excellent blends made by K&K: Rattrays, Solani, McConnell.
Peterson tobaccos.
Some of the wonderful stuff Savinelli is making now for the US market thanks to Smokingpipes.com
Cornell and Diehl, where I am sure there is at least an excellent blend for every pipe smoker.
Ashton tobaccos (one of them, not being the same, makes me not miss my beloved Nightcap).
Seattle Pipe Club blends. I have not tried any of them, but they are very highly regarded.
You are even having some legendary blends resurrected by a great blender (yes, I am thinking of John Cotton´s Smyrna of which I received recently a few tins after paying a prince´s ransom in Spanish customs).
And many more I am forgetting.
Be happy with what you have, not only because it is a good life strategy, specially regarding a hobby, but because you should.
I understand you would like to try some of the unobtanium: go to pipe club meetings in your area and you, most certainly, will.
If you ever visit Spain let me know and I will share some gladly. I am certain I will visit the US some more times in my life, but I doubt I´ll go to Alaska
Now it seems a very probable outcome. Let me say again the little secret many of the forum members have told you in this thread: there are excellent tobaccos currently made and, living as you do in the US they are currently available to you at the best prices in the world, absolute and, of course, relative to median income. I don´t smoke aromatics, so I will not comment on them but you have available, readily and at great prices:
The MacBaren HH line; I have still to try one of that line that, in my opinion, is not excellent.
GL Pease tobaccos.
The excellent blends made by K&K: Rattrays, Solani, McConnell.
Peterson tobaccos.
Some of the wonderful stuff Savinelli is making now for the US market thanks to Smokingpipes.com
Cornell and Diehl, where I am sure there is at least an excellent blend for every pipe smoker.
Ashton tobaccos (one of them, not being the same, makes me not miss my beloved Nightcap).
Seattle Pipe Club blends. I have not tried any of them, but they are very highly regarded.
You are even having some legendary blends resurrected by a great blender (yes, I am thinking of John Cotton´s Smyrna of which I received recently a few tins after paying a prince´s ransom in Spanish customs).
And many more I am forgetting.
Be happy with what you have, not only because it is a good life strategy, specially regarding a hobby, but because you should.
I understand you would like to try some of the unobtanium: go to pipe club meetings in your area and you, most certainly, will.
If you ever visit Spain let me know and I will share some gladly. I am certain I will visit the US some more times in my life, but I doubt I´ll go to Alaska
AK, that is a huge moose! I would actually consider buying a few unicorns even as a new piper. If you know a general genre that you like, why not. These old crumudgeons lose their mind at the thought of paying double the retail cost of a blend, but that doesn't mean it isn't worth that. On eBay you will often see an uncommon blend in a fresh tin selling for the same amount or even more than a tin that has been aged ten+ years. In my mind, that makes the aged stuff an exceptional value. I was too cautious to avoid unicorns when I started cellaring. I wish I had snagged a few tins of Bohemian Scandal when they could be had for 75-100 bucks. Now they are more like 200-250.
Yeah, it's one of the good ones for sure Thanks for the opinions!
I was wondering the exact same thing!
Funny you should mention Bohemian Scandal. Paying that kind of money is proof that Barnum was right. Buying vintage tins is a crap shoot, especially some of the early Pease tins. I wrote about this a year ago.
Here's a tin of Bohemian Scandal from that post:
http://pipesmagazine.com/forums/topic/look-carefully-before-you-leap#post-1196593
Haddo's:
http://pipesmagazine.com/forums/topic/look-carefully-before-you-leap#post-1198402
Samarra:
http://pipesmagazine.com/forums/topic/look-carefully-before-you-leap#post-1196906
Anyone spending a lot of money on these tobaccos isn't dealing with a full deck.
A fool and his money are soon parted.
So Sable, you seem to be a sage/oracle of infinite wisdom on these forums, and I thank you for all your incredibly informative contributions and for sharing your wealth of experience.
My question is quite simple in this case. Would you recommend immediately opening all new tins purchased and transferring them to mason jars if they are going to sit for more than a couple years? 4 years? 6? 10?
What do you do?
And also, as far as buying "estate" tobaccco on ebay, etc. How old is too old to be sure?
Thanks!
My question is quite simple in this case. Would you recommend immediately opening all new tins purchased and transferring them to mason jars if they are going to sit for more than a couple years? 4 years? 6? 10?
What do you do?
And also, as far as buying "estate" tobaccco on ebay, etc. How old is too old to be sure?
Thanks!
In Germany shops can not sell pipe tobacco for significantly more or less than the price on the tax strip. If you find something from a German shop it will be the same price no matter where you buy it. If you find something that is rare/discontinued it isn't likely to have a giant mark-up.
There is some great tobacco that continues to be made here. For example HU is producing very nice blends. One could put together an order and have a nice collection of tobacco not readily available in North America. Currently produced, not "unobtainium", but locally rare.
There is some great tobacco that continues to be made here. For example HU is producing very nice blends. One could put together an order and have a nice collection of tobacco not readily available in North America. Currently produced, not "unobtainium", but locally rare.
Good question!
It really kind of depends on the type of tin, the blend, and the blender. Not all of the early C&D tinned Pease blends have had problems, but Bohemian Scandal, Raven's Wing, Renaissance, Haddo's, Samarra, and several others have become very "iffy". If you are going to pay a few bucks for a tin it might be worth the gamble, but not the prices usually being asked unless you like taking a gamble and accept the odds.
McClelland used food grade tins, but even these have failed. Shortly after I made that post, several people contacted me to tell me that some of their 1990's McClelland tins had failed.
Square and rectangular tins are slowly leaking from the get go, and there's no surprise there, as there's no way for them to maintain an even amount of pressure all around the perimeter. Round tins tend to hold up better in my experience, as do most canisters.
But none of these tins were ever intended for long term storage. They're not heavy duty cutter tops. GL Pease wrote in his FAQ that tobacco should be left in the tin to age, but last year he changed his thoughts after finding that tobaccos in his cellar had been ruined by failing tins. Now he recommends jarring them as soon as possible for long term storage.
I have a lot of Esoterica Bags, and a member here discovered that some of his bags had pinholes in the creases and that the tobacco had dried in those bags. So I bought a stack of heavy duty, .7 mil metalized Mylar food grade gusseted storage bags and heat sealed the Esoterica bags inside of them, one Esoterica bag to one heavy duty Mylar bag.
The rectangular and square tins are sealed inside other heavy duty Mylar bags as well. I haven't gotten around to the round tins as of yet. And I jarred a lot of tobacco, small 4 oz jars for more immediate use, larger jars for the longer haul. None of my McClelland tins are old enough for me to be worried, yet, but I'll eventually seal them up as well, or jar them. Just don't have the time at the moment.
As for how long should one trust a rectangular or square tin? Personally, I'd say not more than 5 to 7 years, tops. Sure, some will last longer, but others won't last even 5 years. If you think you are going to age something longer, jar it or bag the tins.
But also be aware that not all blends age well, and some varieties of tobacco, like Latakia, have a shorter shelf life.
First of all, thanks for the thorough response. I'll only bother you with a couple of follow ups.
Well, I have already vacuum sealed my big whopping two esoterica bags. Was pondering vacuum sealing the tins I intend to age for long term storage as well. Would regular foodsaver vacuum sealed bags (like the kind we use for moose meat and fish) work or does it have to be mylar?
Also, are jars the better option regardless? vacuum sealing is nearly as much a pain in the ass as jarring, so if jarring is a sure thing I'll probably just take that approach....thoughts?
Well, I have already vacuum sealed my big whopping two esoterica bags. Was pondering vacuum sealing the tins I intend to age for long term storage as well. Would regular foodsaver vacuum sealed bags (like the kind we use for moose meat and fish) work or does it have to be mylar?
Also, are jars the better option regardless? vacuum sealing is nearly as much a pain in the ass as jarring, so if jarring is a sure thing I'll probably just take that approach....thoughts?
Any plastic isn't totally impermeable on its own. Metalizing reduces the gas exchange significantly. The bags I use are a 7 layer laminate, so there are 7 layers of aluminum (IIRC) each of which reduces the permeability significantly.
For long term storage, jars are still the best way to go.
For long term storage, jars are still the best way to go.
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