Pipes and Bugout Bags

[stanlaurel]

I have some definite opinions on this subject too, but this bullshit violates the forum rules.

 

[tslex]

911.
Honestly, I laughed out loud.

 

[deathmetal]

Honduras and Venezuela have very strict gun laws and have the highest murder rates in the world.

Guess it depends on the people and not the gun laws then.
Anyway, my point was to say that you shouldn't feel bad if you don't want to own a gun.
But, if you've seen the riots, you'll want something. I always think of those brave "roof Koreans" and how they saved their own stores.

 

[cobguy]

 

[nutcracker]

big pond- I am 911. But we can only go to so many bogus calls per day. In the event that your life needs protecting, you need to have some kind of plan. Our response time to a 'real' gun needed emergency is less than one minute. But that one minute can seem like an eternity when you are the one needing the help. I choose to protect my loved ones and self with a gun.

 

[aggravatedfarmer]

If I lived in the UK I would give up my guns. But I don't, so I won't. The can of worms has been opened for to long and has gotten to large to just make legal firearm illegal.

 

[smokinfireman]

My last post on this because I'm afraid of getting kicked off by Pipesmagazine:
It must be terrifying to live in a county like the UK or Russia where thieves or corrupt police could invade your home at 3 am and take you and your family away without any resistance, or some little old lady could be murdered in her kitchen because some idiot teenagers woke up that morning and decided they'd skip school and end someone's life for their last hundred bucks. But look on the bright side- when you wake up to a masked man standing over your bed, police are just minutes away, trying to bring your address up on an ancient 911 computer. We should outlaw cell phones, because here in the US, distracted driving related car crashes kill 64,000 and maim 30,000 a year- but let's worry about the old man in the cul-de-sac with the rifle. He's dangerous.

 

[hakchuma]

Y'all gonna go bug out to where every other douche bugging out lol. Where ya bugging out to? You'll be running from yourselves lol. Such is cost of the civilization y'all have been so eager to build. :P

 

[deathmetal]

a yahoo with a bugout bag

He knows me!

 

[danielplainview]

I'd try to fit my cellar and all my pipes in my bug out bag. It would be like leaving a child behind.

 

[bigpond]

Cobguy, hard to take that video too seriously. They cherry pick from one specific list while ignoring associative pages that show a more meaningful picture. Of course the US has a lower rate of intentional gun deaths than conflict heavy zones like Honduras and Jamaica. The same chart shows Egypt and Syria are both safer places than the US, just fyi lol. Intentional gun deaths (the chart they use) are only a portion of overall gun deaths, for which the US ranks 13, narrowly behind Mexico (this was big news recently). Again, the countries above have little in common with the average american life style. And serious lol points for the argument that if we just got rid of city X we'd be safer than Luxembourg. Anyway...
What would have been more helpful (and less polarizing) would have been to draw from a list that reflected rates in US peer countries. You can see one here:

http://www.vox.com/cards/gun-violence-facts/guns-international-comparison-us-homicide
And here's at the page for all gun deaths per capita I referenced earlier:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate
I do agree with one point made in the video though wacko's with guns are a problem. :rofl:
Edit: Post like the following are why these threads can never be reasonably debated.

It must be terrifying to live in a county like the UK or Russia where thieves or corrupt police could invade your home at 3 am and take you and your family away without any resistance,

 

[davet]

They cherry pick from one specific list while ignoring associative pages that show a more meaningful picture.

Pot meet kettle

 

[deathmetal]

Maybe all people aren't the same, and some countries do it differently.
http://www.geneticliteracyproject.org/2014/11/04/does-the-human-warrior-gene-make-violent-criminals-and-what-should-society-do/
I wonder if we could get MAOA assessments to compare to these murder rates.

 

[smokinfireman]

How bout we all get back to pipe smoking. We all have our differences, and that's ok. I will keep my guns, and the government can keep the change. Period. Let's all just carry on with what we're all here for and call it a day.

 

[fearsclave]

Sigh...
Those citing cherry picked "gun" violence stats shouldn't look at relative rates at a fixed point in time. Try graphing violent crime rates for each country over time, so that you can see trends in those rates. Then plot major gun control legislation on your timeline... because drilling down a bit, isn't the question really about which firearms policy delivers optimum public safety results?
Doing this for Canada, with our relatively harsh gun control laws, indicates that our gun control laws have had no detectable impact on our violent crime rates, which have been trending downwards since the early 1970's. See here for a somewhat more scholarly analysis: http://jiv.sagepub.com/content/27/12/2303.abstract
Since the date of the Langmann study our violent crime rates have continued to decline: http://www.statcan.gc.ca/pub/85-002-x/2014001/article/14040-eng.htm
This, despite the fact that we scrapped our long gun registry in 2012 and earlier this year further rationalized certain aspects of our licensing system. This supports a hypothesis that gun control laws are generally ineffective at preventing violent crime, and hence protecting the public.
Compare the US; in 2004, they repealed their so-called "Assault Weapon" ban. Over the past three decades, almost every state has adopted concealed carry permit laws, and some have adopted open carry laws. Over 17 million new firearms have been purchased since 2008.
The result? US crime rates have been declining even more steeply than Canada's since their peak in 1993: https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2013/crime-in-the-u.s.-2013
That last FBI report does tend to indicate that the US approach of loosening legal restrictions on gun owners (because that is what gun control laws really are; they're people controls - you can't punish guns) is having a markedly more positive effect on public safety than Canada's harsher restrictions on gun owners. As far as I'm concerned, Canada should just emulate Vermont's firearms laws (I think they prohibit hunting dear with automatic weapons, but other than that, there aren't any).
As for bugout bags, I'm inclined to side with the people who call them "refugee bags". I'm lucky enough to live in a fairly remote area; my biggest concern is harsh winter weather. And that I am more than well prepared for. So my pipe bugout bag is actually my cellar. Worstcase I may have to pack up my Blatter & Blatters, grab a few tins of assorted Dunhills, and rent a forklift for the gunsafes...

 

[deathmetal]

I think they prohibit hunting dear with automatic weapons

Personally, I draw the lines at grenade launchers. Ruins the venison.

 

[bigpond]

Those citing cherry picked "gun" violence stats shouldn't look at relative rates at a fixed point in time. Try graphing violent crime rates for each country over time, so that you can see trends in those rates.

You can't because those details are not forthcoming. The statistics are incomplete for the majority of those amongst the higher tier and are provided independently by each national government. Consistent data seems to only be available for peer level countries.

drilling down a bit, isn't the question really about which firearms policy delivers optimum public safety results?

Logically, yeah.
There has been little in the way to actually look at that though at a Governmental level in the US though. The Fed ordered and received this but hasn't figured out what to do with it yet.

http://www.nap.edu/read/10881/chapter/1
The real issue is that the studies, as you mentioned, that have been done in the space don't seem to show a correlation between aggressive policy and a decrease in gun deaths. Here's one that looks at murder heavy Honduras and peer States. http://www.insightcrime.org/news-analysis/does-strict-gun-legislation-reduce-violent-crime-in-latam

That last FBI report does tend to indicate that the US approach of loosening legal restrictions on gun owners (because that is what gun control laws really are; they're people controls - you can't punish guns) is having a markedly more positive effect on public safety than Canada's harsher restrictions on gun owners.

That's taking a leap, and completely ignores societal factors that exist outside of gun control legislation.

 

[rhoadsie]

This is why they need to take away the guns.
Who is "they" and how exactly does that (taking away guns) happen? This is always the anti-gun cry but with 300 million + guns in this country, exactly how? Under certain circumstances, I can imagine law-abiding citizens complying but criminals (by definition) do not follow laws.
Not a perfect analogy, but how is the war on drugs working out? Related, how does the drug trade contribute to gun-related violence and deaths.
Suppose one were to compare the gun homicide rate of our inner cities with violent and/or developing countries. Eerily similar?
This is interesting, Illinois, as a whole, has a low gun homicide rate (deaths per 100,000 people) but Chicago (where guns are banned) is among the highest in the nation. I am not saying that guns being banned in this city is causal toward gun homicides, the problem is more complex and multifactorial (i.e. involves drugs, socioeconomic status, etc.).
It is sad when these things happen...http://www.cnn.com/2015/11/10/us/chicago-tyshawn-lee-shooting/index.html ...likely by gang members (criminals) with illegal firearms in a city that prohibits possession of firearms.
I am not a gun zealot but I own firearms and possess a concealed carry permit although I also choose to live in an area where neither are likely necessary for survival. If I had to move to an inner city my feelings would be quite different.
In any event, everyone should be prepared for catastrophic events and responsible for their own survival. Whether this involves a firearm is up to the individual but given the current state of affairs in the US, possessing a gun would likely be helpful rather than harmful. And, of course, a pipe and tobacco for, if nothing else, a final smoke.

 

[cobguy]

Yep ... we've been down this path here at PM Forums a few times and it always ends the same.
Politics (including those of gun laws) and religion will never be good forum topics.
How you were raised, social and economic status, geography and many other factors form our opinions.
A few posts on a pipe related forum will change NO ONES mind ... facts or no facts.
So ... most likely best for us all to light a pipe and embrace our similarities. ::

 

[bigpond]

In any event, everyone should be prepared for catastrophic events and responsible for their own survival. Whether this involves a firearm is up to the individual but given the current state of affairs in the US,

This is the issue that I originally responded to. What is this catastrophic event looming near on the horizon that people would be wise to pack a bug out bag? What bugs me is that packing a bag full of guns presupposes violence, not collaboration. Back in the depression if we had just shot all those destitute farmers in the dust bowl, heck, just think of all the food we could have saved on feeding them. Oorah!