Microsoft v Apple

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iamn8

Preferred Member
Sep 8, 2014
4,253
0
Moody, AL
In another thread I sought advice on whether I should go with a MacBook or an iPad Pro. I did this with trepidation, not seeking/wanting to start a discussion/debate of Microsoft vs Apple. Turns out that you just can't discuss these things without a bit of debate. Passions flame and you get the feeling that people on both sides need to vent... so let's vent. We are all adults here? We can debate civilly and respectfully?
I find that the followers of The Windows are mostly concerned with completing a certain task in such a way that's familiar and gets from X to Y. Followers of The Apple are equally concerned with the quality of the tools. There could never be a successful chain of Microsoft stores because there are just too many vendors and sub contractors, too many hands in the pot.

When Apple releases a new product, eager customers line up around the store at midnight. Microsoft? Not so much because the user experience isn't there. Now, those who hate Apple will make fun of this and chalk it up to a weakness, but the truth is, Apple elicits excitement and enthusiasm. Microsoft, even among their users, elicits yawns. Nobody will ever stand in line all night for a Surface or a PC because there's nothing to be excited about. Apple is a global juggernaut because they make beautiful, stunning objects that just work. Microsoft is a global juggernaut because they were the best option at the time, the birth of the PC.

 

dustmite

Member
Mar 5, 2015
263
0
I refuse to stand in line for anything, no matter how "great" it is. While Apple launched the smartphone revolution, and an early OS was "borrowed" to make Windows, I feel like Apple products on the whole are overpriced significantly, and under-perform. The other thing that bothers me about Apple is the iconic Super Bowl commercial with all the drones sitting in a while theatre staring at a man on stage, which was supposed to represent the mindless masses following Bill Gates. Seems the tables have turned. Anyone remember the last iPhone launch, where the biggest upgrade ended up being a screen size almost as large as an average Android?

 

iamn8

Preferred Member
Sep 8, 2014
4,253
0
Moody, AL
I understand that argument, but why do you suppose Apple illicit such passion while Microsoft elicits yawns and gripes? If Apple is so bad why are the so successful? Do you see that large a portion of the population to just be stupid? Assuming what you're saying is correct, why are iPhones/iPads/MacBooks consistently rated so incredibly high?

It's been my experience that they work. I've had nothing but troubles with anything non-apple... and I'm VERY tech savvy. I know what I'm doing.

 

dustmite

Member
Mar 5, 2015
263
0
I make my personal choice, and don't look down at others for doing the same. But equating popularity to quality means Taylor Swift is an excellent singer, McDonald's makes the best burger, and Captain Black is the best pipe tobacco...

 

philobeddoe

Preferred Member
Oct 31, 2011
4,510
16
East Indiana
I have been hearing this debate for some time and I've come to some generalizations about each of the types, PC and Apple. PC people tend to fall into two basic groups, as do Apple users. I find that PC people tend to be either very hands-on tech savvy types, that see their computers, phones, tablets, etc. as a constant work in progress, wherein they can upgrade components as they need more capacity in each area of the device, be that memory, video card, etc.. These users tend to find the PC's open platform not only useful, but essential to their very idea of computing, to them a device is never finished, it can be upgraded as the technology and their personal needs deem it necessary. The second type of generalized PC user tends to be the rank novice whose main concern is price and PC's have always had a lower entry point than Apple products. / Apple users also tend to fall into two very general user types. Firstly, there is the person who just wants their computing device, be it a laptop, phone or desktop, to just work...by that, I mean that they just want to buy the device with all of the bells and whistles from the get go and they are more willing to replace the entire device when it becomes insufficient for their needs. They do not look at this as wasteful, they look at this as simply the way things are, a phone or computer is no different to them than a television or a car, you buy what you want and you use it until your wants or needs dictate that you replace the product. There is also a second type of general Apple user, the person who has to have the latest and greatest, regardless of cost, simply to impress others or as to project some image that they believe they Apple devices convey. This is my .2 cents, but it comes from many years of useage and observing other people use their devices!

 

warren

Preferred Member
Sep 13, 2013
7,353
36
Microsoft elicits yawns and gripes from Apple fans. Apple elicits the same from Microsoft fans. Both have successful stores in large markets. I go back and forth with regard to platforms depending on where I am. I find neither to be perfect nor to be overly flawed.
I do believe Apple stole a march on IBM years ago when they targeted schools and children, providing low prices and sometimes giveaways. They did hardware, in a very protective manner. Microsoft did not get into the hardware business until years later. So a generation grew up using Apple.
Microsoft instead targeted businesses and adults, and still enjoys a much larger customer base with regard to "Platform." While Apple protects it's platform and stays innovative in hardware.
When it comes to hardware/software, Apple chose to be protective, IBM and Microsoft took a wider approach, opting to spread the wealth. The companies simply chose different methods of marketing and both are extremely successful. Also, Apple, early on, positioned itself David to the Microsoft/IBM Goliath and enjoyed being seen as the "little" guy against Microsoft and IBM.
One side wishes to protect their market, the other shares knowledge and allows licensing agreements. IBM's style seems to have backfired on them as companies began making the PC cheaper and with more bells and whistles. Apple stayed secretive and protective, choosing to not encourage competition. In deed, Apple fiercely protects patents and technologies choosing to stay secretive and protective of their technology.
Two entirely different strategies with regard to technology and marketing. Both work well for the different sides.
What I always found amusing is Apple now being the "trust" and the PC makers are the "little guys" now scrambling for market share. It's almost a "class war" in the conflict between the consumers. When Apple became dominant they suddenly found themselves the target by what was once their fervid supporters, anti-trust investigations in particular. No longer is Apple the darling of the "anti-business" segment of society. They are the enemy now, rich and secretive.
IBM is no longer seen as the threat, Apple is now fair game. Interesting how things change with success.
edit: Damned hard to write the above without getting into a political discussion. In the early years of the personal computer the choice was often based on political leaning as well as platform differences. A distaste for the size of the giant IBM often pushed people towards the Apple product. Jobs and company encouraged this, catered to it in fact.

 

deathmetal

Preferred Member
Jul 21, 2015
7,724
0
I understand that argument, but why do you suppose Apple illicit such passion while Microsoft elicits yawns and gripes?
Because Windows users have a more mature view of technology: it's a tool, not a fascination.
If you want a detail-precise system, you get Linux; if you want it to "just work" for what 80% of people are doing you get a Mac; if you want it to work with some but not much fiddling for 100%, you get Windows.
I'm glad I quit using Apple in the late 1980s because the company is a cult. You can tell because they are defensive and zombie-like about how important their machines are, which misses the point entirely.
I also left Apple because their approach -- accommodating the 80%, and leaving out anything past that -- is flawed and leads to ignorance.
I am rapidly approaching that point with Android because the model of "use an app for everything" is regressive 1960s crap that no coder worth his salt should endorse.

 

mso489

Preferred Member
Feb 21, 2013
25,941
116
I was a good soldier using Microsoft for years. At work it was what was issued, even when the work was more Apple appropriate. Incidentally, the more influential research people spurned Microsoft and got Apples, thumbing their nose at management, and never looked back. When I bought a computer for home, at along last, I bought Microsoft thinking it was what I was trained to use -- with horrible experiences with the hardware company that required the intercession of a team of states attorney generals to get us hapless customers our money back. I won't string it out, but that was not the end of the abuse. So when I finally, skeptically, bought an Apple for home, I didn't expect all that much improvement. I'm not a tech saavy guy; I just don't think that way; my brain isn't binary and doesn't fall in line with that. But Apple, over time, was a significant help. It's still binary. It's still a computer. It's still a techy project. But it is accessible and in the realm of user-friendly, and that helps a whole lot. I've only lined up once, not for a new product, but for a state tax-free day to buy my Apple desktop.

 

iamn8

Preferred Member
Sep 8, 2014
4,253
0
Moody, AL
Lol it's CRAZY how passionate we are about our choices in this realm. It gets heated really fast and yes even a bit political. I'm a republican and an Apple fan. So there!

For what I do, which includes email, surfing, writing, and astronomy/astrophotography, and some Photoshopping, Apple is the best choice. Linux won't work with my equipment. Windows is a nightmare. Android I just don't like. In the end, the Apple Echosystem brings me great joy! I LOVE it... Not once have I ever been anything but happy with it... which is saying something because I'm FAR more apt to hate than love.

 

pappymac

Preferred Member
Feb 26, 2015
1,838
7
I've never stood in line to buy an Apple product. I'm been using Mac Computers since 1987. I also have an iPhone, iPad and iPod.
When I first started using Macs, it was because the operating system was easier to use than the old MS-Dos systems other computers ran and because the software for layout and design was better and easier to use.
I have nothing against PCs, I'm just so used to doing what I need and want to do on the Mac that I can't see a reason for switching to another system. I've never lost a computer or a file due to being hacked or because of a virus or worm.

 

iamn8

Preferred Member
Sep 8, 2014
4,253
0
Moody, AL
I use an app, SkySafari pro to remotely target and control my mount when I'm not imaging. When I'm I'm imaging I use software written by the same company that manufactured my mount, Bisque. It's an 11k piece of hardware with OSX software written for it. It's actually pretty amazing...
http://www.bisque.com/sc/pages/ParamountMX.aspx

 

nachman

Member
Jun 27, 2013
229
1
My first Apple was a Apple III, It was made to compete with IBM PCs and had an amazing 16k om the board. Yes 16k is correct, and my friends told me I just bought it for bragging rights because nobody could ever use 16k. Things went fine for a while, and then Apple announced they would no linger support the Apple III. When I got tired of writing my own drivers etc, I bought an Apple II, then Apple announced they would no longer support Apple IIs. I never bought another Apple product because they introduce new products with no backward compatibility. Everything eventually becomes obsolete and incompatible with previous versions, but with Microsoft it happens slowly and less abruptly.

 

iamn8

Preferred Member
Sep 8, 2014
4,253
0
Moody, AL
There was a time when that was true, but not for a VERY long time, but I get that. You get a bad taste and discount an entire product line.... I did this with PC's :)

 

cobguy

Preferred Member
Oct 18, 2013
3,743
0
I'm with Microsoft all the way with no "i" anything in my home.
Just finished reading this and it seemed apropos to the conversation:
http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/markets/2015/12/18/apple-bear-market-aapl/77560080/
Apple (AAPL) diehards who keep saying the stock "will come back" are going into hibernation today.
Shares of the gadget maker closed down another 2.7% Friday to $106.03 — knocking the stock down 21% from its recent high of $134.54. The breathtaking decline not only puts Apple into a bear market - defined by a 20% drop — but has obliterated a staggering $160 billion in shareholder wealth from the top.
Just to put that into perspective, Apple's $160 billion decline is larger than 477 companies in the Standard & Poor's 500 are worth. A drop this big is the financial equivalent of wiping out the market value of entire companies like Pepsico (PEP) at $146 billion, International Business Machines (IBM) at $133 billion or Nike (NKE) at $111 billion.
Troubling signs pointing to weakening demand for smartphones continues to dog the stock. Analysts are cutting growth expectations for the fourth quarter — and even the first quarter — as they incorporate weaker demand. Despite efforts to diversify away from the mature smartphone market — Apple still gets a vast majority of its revenue and profit from smartphones.
Meanwhile ... I'm pretty happy with my stocks of Microsoft:


 

warren

Preferred Member
Sep 13, 2013
7,353
36
Both are worth having in one's portfolio. Both will more than likely perform well over the years. Both are better as long term investments, in my opinion. You should not fall in love with either nor, shun either. It's hard to buy stock in companies you detest and equally hard to sell at the right time, the one's you are enamored with.

 

cobguy

Preferred Member
Oct 18, 2013
3,743
0
It's hard to buy stock in companies you detest and equally hard to sell at the right time, the one's you are enamored with.
For some, yes. Those people should hire a broker / fund manager.

 

peckinpahhombre

Preferred Member
Dec 24, 2012
7,096
0
cobguy, for the record, Apple's 5 year return is better than Microsoft's 5 year return, but I suspect you know that. I own both stocks so I have no bias one way or the other.
I won't even talk about how they compare for total return over 10 years or 20 years, because that could drive both of us to hit the bottle hard.
Comparing the products, I am a lawyer and know very little about technology and, to be candid, I don't really want to. I just find Apple products much more user friendly than the PCs I have used -- that's the only reason I prefer Apple.
I like sausages -- they are delcious -- but I have little interest in making sausages. When I had a PC I just felt like everything was "off" and that I really had to learn about sausage-making to get the thing to do what I wanted it to do. With that nugget, my sausage metaphor is hereby concluded.

 

cobguy

Preferred Member
Oct 18, 2013
3,743
0
Right you are, sir ... and I enjoyed your sausage analogy! :)
I mostly wanted to point out the recent huge loss and how it compares to the total market:
, Apple's $160 billion decline is larger than 477 companies in the Standard & Poor's 500 are worth. A drop this big is the financial equivalent of wiping out the market value of entire companies like Pepsico (PEP) at $146 billion, International Business Machines (IBM) at $133 billion or Nike (NKE) at $111 billion.
 

pappymac

Preferred Member
Feb 26, 2015
1,838
7
Bottom line is that what you do on a PC computer or device you can do on a Mac computer or Apple device. Sure there may be some technical differences but they aren't that big of a deal when you look at the basics. I do layout and design for print publications mostly these days. I do it mainly on a 21" iMac because I like the way all the Adobe software I use interfaces with each other and because of the subtle differences in how the OSX works with the software. I have also done the same work on a PC running windows. I can use a PC but since I'm not as familiar with it, it takes me longer to get the same work done.
Another point often made by PC users is how cheap their computers were when compared to a Mac. And it's true - basic PCs are cheaper than basic Macs. On the other hand, last year when I was pricing a new iMac. I compared the iMac to a PC feature to feature and to get the basic PC up to the same level of the iMac I was looking at the price difference was about $200. When you add in the fact than none of the Macs I've worked with over the past 29 years have had a problem with a virus, worm or being hacked, I felt paying tor the iMac to be a good investment.
That's not to say Macs are perfect. In 2006 I bought a Mac G5 tower. It crapped out on me 5 years later because of a power supply issue. Since then the only computer issues I have had had been with external hard drives that were made by 3rd party companies.
I'm also not saying that all PCs are crap. However my oldest son bought a new PC laptop in 2010. He's replaced it 4 times since then.
And a point on the Apple stock (I don't own any). Sure the decline has been huge but have you ever considered that the decline has been big because the stock reached a point of overvalue? Or did you really expect the stock to stay as high as it was?