@daimyo
Thanks for showing my dream pipe man. Now everyone is going to out bid me on it!!!
..or, probably not.
Thanks for showing my dream pipe man. Now everyone is going to out bid me on it!!!
..or, probably not.
I Bring You The Pipe Turds
- Thread starter pylorns
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IDK, but that is a gorgeous pipe!! Is that one on Etsy too?
How do you explain the comment ---
:
How do you explain the comment ---
I don't have the same hatred of Etsy pipemakers. In fact, I don't see him making any reference to that in the thread. He seems to be addressing the room in general. But, I don't belong to that forum. I don't know it's nuances. I may just be missing some jargon or reference to these guys. I am old, and my hair is falling out :
:
To take this thread in a different direction, it seems that all of the Silver Castle pipes, Huge Stone, etc. had some connection, early on, to the Neptune line of pipes. This quoted post in the OP seems to corroborate that. Anyone know more? You might also recall that the sellers of those pipes are also the sellers of fake Nordhs, Eltangs, Beckers, etc. Anyone able to sort out that tangled web?
To be clear, I don't hate etsy pipe makers either nor do I wish ill of the chap whose pipe I posted. I hope they all continue to improve and enjoy what they do. I am of the mind though that the return of artisan craftsmen means little if they are not actually any good in their chosen craft. I think a good example of the issue is a carver like Alex Brishuta. He came out of an area not really on the map for many pipe collectors and wowed people with his carving and imagination. People bought his pipes and found the quality of work and briar inline with his pricing. He made a name for himself partially due to his meteorite like pipes. Now you will see on ebay every few weeks an unknown Ukrainian carver responsible for something that truly does look more like a turd than a meteor. They lack the technical ability, finishing skills and creativity that Alex does but are more than happy to try and ride his coat tails. While I hope the market will sort them, I can see why someone who works hard at his craft would see them as parasitic and opportunistic. Unless you are of the mind that no parasitic hacks exist, they certainly bring nothing positive to the hobby or market. YMMV though and I do see the issue with his initial statement. Context does matter though.
I'm not clear on what you mean or how it all works with this post, pitchfork. But, I have several Silver Castles, and they are made in Canada, not Tennessee, and they are all excellent smokers. I love mine. I would definitely buy another.
Was there something wrong with that pipe, daimyo. I looked it over again, and it looks like the artist followed the basic Eltang bamboo design. I love that bowl shape. What am I missing?
I never stated that you had no experience or pipes, I simply pointed out that no one would simply know this by your few posts. If you think the pipe I posted is properly priced, that is your right. If you think Todd is overpriced then that is also your right. That said, I have stated my opinion on the subject. But you conjectured a lot in your initial post and frankly sound more like someone with a bone to pick than a bystander who just happened to pop in to offer an opinion. One of the great things about this site is that those with expensive pipes and rare aged tobacco get along great with those smoking CH out of a cob. I do not consider this forum or pipemakersforum to be snobby places. I see Todd and the others there freely give the info they have learned to anyone interested. So for me to drastically change my opinion it will take more than a rant or two and some pictures of nice pipes. Stating that Todd is this and Todd is that is not calmly addressing a subject, it is asserting that you know the mind of another well enough to reprove them completely. You will forgive me if I take that as your opinion and form my own based on what was said in that thread, not just the post that was quoted.
Then maybe I'm the one who's confused, then.
I had thought that the Silver Castle, etc. pipes were made in China (not Canada) and that they had some connection, at some point, with Todd Johnson's involvement with setting up a pipe factory/workshop in China (referenced in the OP):
As I understand it, the original incarnation of the Neptune line was made in China also -- at least that's how I understand TJ's comments.
Also, there were some Canadian guys involved in starting the Silver Castle line, but the idea was to make them cheaply in China.
Does that help? Or just confuse things more!
The severe taper in a short length to meet the size of the bamboo, the further taper of the spacer which also does not fit flush to the bamboo, the transition from the stem to the final spacer. Now if this pipe was posted on pipemakerforum asking for critique I believe it would be given graciously and without condescension and the maker would be encouraged. Instead it is on ebay with a long descriptive blurb about the maker and his skill. The only way I can see the problem is if there are no inexperienced makers selling some of their first pipes as if they are ready for market. In my own opinion, clearly there are. I can certainly see the OG quote being taken poorly on its own but for me, the follow ups clarified the points made. YMMV
@cubie yeah man, I just posted Todd's post on Pipe Maker Forums I don't make it a habit to go bashing carvers (unless they have personally insulted me or given me cause to take issue with them. AND I can say that has not happened yet). I merely posted this for your viewing pleasure to discuss; I see merit to Todd's argument in some cases, but he does come across as a jackwagon. That said I've never met him and that's my impression as how he comes across online.
Aha! mlc to the rescue (Michael, this is where I read that two Canadians started the line):
http://pipesmagazine.com/forums/topic/silver-castle-pipe#post-502912
And see this. (Very similar to Neptune designs, plus I think there's a "Jess" bulldog in there):
http://www.51tjz.cn/tjz/Prd_sort.asp?Tid=15&Ttid=195
And some Silver Castle pipes appear to have been better made than others. Check out this one:
http://pipesmagazine.com/forums/topic/silver-castle-pipe#post-502912
And see this. (Very similar to Neptune designs, plus I think there's a "Jess" bulldog in there):
http://www.51tjz.cn/tjz/Prd_sort.asp?Tid=15&Ttid=195
And some Silver Castle pipes appear to have been better made than others. Check out this one:
Gentlemen,
Permit me to jump in here in a personal capacity and say a few things about the controversy that's being referenced. To be clear, I have expressed my personal opinions to a group of my own colleagues regarding the quality of handmade pipes and my desire to see it increase. Essentially, I want to see the guys who are making and selling handmade pipes do excellent work instead of doing mediocre work and calling it "good enough." The vast majority of American pipe makers share these same goals, and I'm hopeful that more and more guys are willing to commit themselves to a high standard of quality. When the bar is lowered, the entire hobby suffers as a result. When the bar is raised, the entire hobby benefits from it. I think that discussion has created some solidarity amongst pipe makers and will hopefully even result in a formal-ish commitment to do more original work and offer only a high quality product to the consumer. If everyone commits to this, the consumer, and the hobby itself, will be much better served.
Certainly, we can all have our own opinions about what makes a "good" pipe, but as pipe makers, there are certain boxes that absolutely must be ticked. As the price goes up there are more and more boxes that need to be ticked. I think that's a pretty simple equation, and one we could all agree with. If a pipe isn't ticking all the boxes that the price-category warrants, then we're doing the customer a disservice. My message to pipe makers was basically this. As a pipe maker, you know the boxes are there and which ones need to be ticked even if the customer doesn't. Don't sell a pipe without ticking those boxes just because you can. it's disrespectful to the very people you rely on to support you, and you shouldn't take advantage of them.
With respect to those price categories, my own handmade pipes don't fall into the $300-$400 price range, but I care about what's going on there because this entire industry/hobby matters to me. Likewise, 100% of Briarworks' Icarus pipes, and 95% of its Neptune pipes fall outside of this price category. The median price for an Icarus pipe is $160, and the median price for a Neptune is $210. Briarworks' pipes are designed, engineered, and produced to tick all the boxes you would expect in a pipe for two to three times this price, and, the goal is to deliver an exceptional quality product to the consumer at an exceptionally fair price, and back it up with first rate service. That's what I, personally, am asking of my colleagues who sell their work in other price categories as well.
For those who have have had negative things to say in this thread, I can see how, not understanding the context, you might have construed my meaning to be other than I intended. There are no hard feelings on my part. I am certainly guilty of holding forth from my personal soapbox at times--especially when the conversation is taking place amongst folks who all know one another personally--and I can see where that could give offense. So for my hyperbole and any offense I may have given, I apologize. I am passionate about these things because I've given more than 15 years to this endeavor as a pipe maker, and I do not want to see the bar lowered. I don't think any of us do.
Briarworks is not in the business of having opinions (and thus, I probably shouldn't be either), only in the business of creating exceptionally high quality pipes at a great price. For you, flatticus, and pylorns, and cosmicfolklore, it seems my personal opinions about handmade pipes in another forum have given you a negative impression of the pipes Briarworks is producing. That being the case, I'd be happy for you to e-mail me privately, so I can extend a personal olive branch in the form of a Briarworks pipe. Then, at least, you can make an informed judgement about a Briarworks pipe that isn't clouded by what I may have said to a group of my colleagues. I hope that seems fair enough.
I think what you'll find is that our only real "marketing strategy" is making great pipes, and selling them at fair prices through retailers who provide the finest customer service. Basically, we want the product to speak for itself, and to date, I'm not aware of a single negative review or comment from any collector about any one of the thousands of pipes that Briarworks has produced, so I feel pretty confident we've arrived at a winning combination. I think that speaks highly of our pipes, our dealers and distributors, and the group of talented personnel who are gradually becoming genuine pipe makers in their own right. If there's anything we can do better, we're always happy to hear about it. I guess the lesson I've learned is that I can no longer maintain an identity separate from Briarworks, and in retrospect that seems fairly self-evident.
If any of you have questions, or criticisms, or anything else you'd like to express, you can always send Briarworks an e-mail: info@briarworksintl.com. Or, if there's something you want us to address publicly, let us know where the conversation is happening and we will be happy to participate.
All the best,
Todd
P.S. I'm not sure what the relevance of the video is, but Briarworks isn't associated in any way with the folks in it. I can say I've met Jason personally, and genuinely liked him. From the pictures I've seen, I think we own a lot of the same skateboarding socks, but that's the extent of our connection.
Permit me to jump in here in a personal capacity and say a few things about the controversy that's being referenced. To be clear, I have expressed my personal opinions to a group of my own colleagues regarding the quality of handmade pipes and my desire to see it increase. Essentially, I want to see the guys who are making and selling handmade pipes do excellent work instead of doing mediocre work and calling it "good enough." The vast majority of American pipe makers share these same goals, and I'm hopeful that more and more guys are willing to commit themselves to a high standard of quality. When the bar is lowered, the entire hobby suffers as a result. When the bar is raised, the entire hobby benefits from it. I think that discussion has created some solidarity amongst pipe makers and will hopefully even result in a formal-ish commitment to do more original work and offer only a high quality product to the consumer. If everyone commits to this, the consumer, and the hobby itself, will be much better served.
Certainly, we can all have our own opinions about what makes a "good" pipe, but as pipe makers, there are certain boxes that absolutely must be ticked. As the price goes up there are more and more boxes that need to be ticked. I think that's a pretty simple equation, and one we could all agree with. If a pipe isn't ticking all the boxes that the price-category warrants, then we're doing the customer a disservice. My message to pipe makers was basically this. As a pipe maker, you know the boxes are there and which ones need to be ticked even if the customer doesn't. Don't sell a pipe without ticking those boxes just because you can. it's disrespectful to the very people you rely on to support you, and you shouldn't take advantage of them.
With respect to those price categories, my own handmade pipes don't fall into the $300-$400 price range, but I care about what's going on there because this entire industry/hobby matters to me. Likewise, 100% of Briarworks' Icarus pipes, and 95% of its Neptune pipes fall outside of this price category. The median price for an Icarus pipe is $160, and the median price for a Neptune is $210. Briarworks' pipes are designed, engineered, and produced to tick all the boxes you would expect in a pipe for two to three times this price, and, the goal is to deliver an exceptional quality product to the consumer at an exceptionally fair price, and back it up with first rate service. That's what I, personally, am asking of my colleagues who sell their work in other price categories as well.
For those who have have had negative things to say in this thread, I can see how, not understanding the context, you might have construed my meaning to be other than I intended. There are no hard feelings on my part. I am certainly guilty of holding forth from my personal soapbox at times--especially when the conversation is taking place amongst folks who all know one another personally--and I can see where that could give offense. So for my hyperbole and any offense I may have given, I apologize. I am passionate about these things because I've given more than 15 years to this endeavor as a pipe maker, and I do not want to see the bar lowered. I don't think any of us do.
Briarworks is not in the business of having opinions (and thus, I probably shouldn't be either), only in the business of creating exceptionally high quality pipes at a great price. For you, flatticus, and pylorns, and cosmicfolklore, it seems my personal opinions about handmade pipes in another forum have given you a negative impression of the pipes Briarworks is producing. That being the case, I'd be happy for you to e-mail me privately, so I can extend a personal olive branch in the form of a Briarworks pipe. Then, at least, you can make an informed judgement about a Briarworks pipe that isn't clouded by what I may have said to a group of my colleagues. I hope that seems fair enough.
I think what you'll find is that our only real "marketing strategy" is making great pipes, and selling them at fair prices through retailers who provide the finest customer service. Basically, we want the product to speak for itself, and to date, I'm not aware of a single negative review or comment from any collector about any one of the thousands of pipes that Briarworks has produced, so I feel pretty confident we've arrived at a winning combination. I think that speaks highly of our pipes, our dealers and distributors, and the group of talented personnel who are gradually becoming genuine pipe makers in their own right. If there's anything we can do better, we're always happy to hear about it. I guess the lesson I've learned is that I can no longer maintain an identity separate from Briarworks, and in retrospect that seems fairly self-evident.
If any of you have questions, or criticisms, or anything else you'd like to express, you can always send Briarworks an e-mail: info@briarworksintl.com. Or, if there's something you want us to address publicly, let us know where the conversation is happening and we will be happy to participate.
All the best,
Todd
P.S. I'm not sure what the relevance of the video is, but Briarworks isn't associated in any way with the folks in it. I can say I've met Jason personally, and genuinely liked him. From the pictures I've seen, I think we own a lot of the same skateboarding socks, but that's the extent of our connection.
I can definitely see this and agree the quoted OP on it's own is inflammatory. Taken for what is laid out in the entirety of the thread though, I think some very valid points are made even if we remove Todd and his personality from it. Flatticus, I do not wish to make more of your first posts than already has been. On all other matters we may fully agree or at least see eye to eye. It came across to me as an odd choice for first post but my opinion is only that. Sweet smokes to all.
I can see that angle but if Ford only sold Pintos prone to exploding then perhaps not. Todd did say that if you seek to make decent pipes and not simply cash in on rubes then you are not who he is talking to but I can also concede that I can see how he is coming across to some.
Todd, thank you for the direct input.
Its interesting that I can only ever find one of each design of the Silver Castles. It would seem that of they were mass produced in China that they'd be the same pipe designs everywhere. When I bought my first, I contacted the seller and tracked down an address and email contact for the maker, who was a student of Jack Su (if I have the name right?), according to them. You will only ever see one-of-a-kinds in that line.
Are they lying and secretly somewhere hundreds of these are being sold? Were they jerking my chain? I only have their correspondences, which was enough for me. The only fault that I could find was the stems bits. I'm certain that that part was mass produced.
Are they lying and secretly somewhere hundreds of these are being sold? Were they jerking my chain? I only have their correspondences, which was enough for me. The only fault that I could find was the stems bits. I'm certain that that part was mass produced.
Just to clarify where we are in the discussion. Todd hates these Silver Castles, and wants to run pipe makers like this out of business? So this is what the rant is about?
...so he designed short fat ugly squatty pipes with tiny bowls that (some say) are over priced to drive out these small bamboo pipe designers. I'm lost. And, why does he hate pokers??>?
I need a nap.
I need a nap.
Whoa whoa whoa. @toddjohnson. I got a neptune pipe, I love it. Aside from saying you come across as a jackass, I never said I disagree with the argument. I think the whole pipe community of collectors and pipe makers benifit from talking about this subject and thus why this thread got started. It is also not the only place that this conversation is happening.
http://www.reddit.com/r/PipeTobacco/comments/2xtvvl/there_seems_to_be_a_storm_brewing_in_the/
http://www.reddit.com/r/PipeTobacco/comments/2xtvvl/there_seems_to_be_a_storm_brewing_in_the/
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