Early Era Sasieni 1-Dot Shape 19S

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puffermark

Junior Member
Feb 24, 2015
90
4
Plucked this off my local auction site. From what I can tell it is possibly pre-war. Since it doesn't have a patent number (as in the case of the pipes shipped to the US), I assume it was made for sale in Britain/Europe where Mr Dunhill's legal challenge to the use of the single dot was less successful than in the US, and production continued for longer. According to Pipedia the 'fishtail' stamping pegs it as being made during the tenure of Mr Sasieni Sr. before his son took over in 1946. Any assistance in narrowing down further would be very much appreciated.
The before pics were cropped from the auction page, so not great quality, but I think you'll get the general picture. Best part? Got it for the equivalent of under 15$. Thanks for looking.








 

ssjones

Moderator
Staff member
May 11, 2011
14,104
88
Maryland
Great find! According to Pipephil, the One Dot on top was only made for a short time, between 1919-1924. No Patent numbers says it was made for the European market (I believe that only pipes bound for the US had the patent number).

 

dmcmtk

Preferred Member
Aug 23, 2013
2,896
19
Not sure what we are looking at here, however,
"Sasieni was not oblivious to the success Dunhill had achieved with its famous “White Spot” logo, and while he obviously couldn’t copy the logo exactly, he apparently saw no problem with reinterpreting it a bit. Therefore, each Sasieni pipe which came out of the factory had a single blue dot in the stem.
Not surprisingly, the idea of their former employee competing with them using a very similar trademark didn’t exactly make Dunhill’s day. They threatened legal action in both the U. K. and the U. S.. Sasieni was saved in England by that country’s rather vague trademark laws, and the Sasieni One Dot continued to be produced for the European market for several decades."

See also here. Look at the timeline noting 1924 and 1961.
http://www.pipephil.eu/logos/en/infos/sasieni-timechart.html

 

dmcmtk

Preferred Member
Aug 23, 2013
2,896
19
although the fishtail logo would place it pre 1946,wouldnt it?
Yes, I would say so. It's the 19S that is throwing me a little bit...

 

sablebrush52

Preferred Member
Jun 15, 2013
9,616
118
The notion of a European 1 Dot being in use for decades really interests me. I've yet to see any verifiable proof of that and I'd love to. Steve Smith's article is wonderful, but he had the introduction of town names wrong by more than a decade. Has anyone seen and have a picture of a hallmarked one dot from the '30's or later?
In any case, terrific score! What's the currency in the auction image?

 

bayareabriar

Junior Member
May 8, 2019
89
0
I am still interested in the football shape made in England. I think that is a "later" style stamping as the earlier ones are linear and also say London made. I'd love to see dating on that stamping alone. The dot looks light blue... I'd say pre-war definitely if that's the case. I have a few four dots where the light blue dots are broken a little (little recessed) and they appear whiter.

 

dmcmtk

Preferred Member
Aug 23, 2013
2,896
19
Here is a question I forgot to ask earlier, does the pipe have a stinger?

 

puffermark

Junior Member
Feb 24, 2015
90
4
Thanks for all the comments and info, gents. Very much appreciated.
The 19S does appear on a Sasieni shape chart as a 19S 'Pembroke' (see below), the 'S' denoting a saddle stem as stated above. This pipe would seem to pre-date the town name thing though, so I'm wondering when that started.
The currency in the auction image is South African Rands (ZAR), curently trading at R14.19 to the $.
Thanks again.


 

greeneyes

Member
Jun 5, 2018
101
8
The Rand, ey? A few months ago I ordered some tobacco from Wesley's in South Africa. A couple of the blends were quite outstanding and I'm just waiting to get organized to order more. Africa has very unique tobacco and I can see why manufacturers like Samuel Gawith and Germain use it so often in their blends.

 

puffermark

Junior Member
Feb 24, 2015
90
4
Here is a question I forgot to ask earlier, does the pipe have a stinger?
Sorry, I missed that. Yes indeed and quite unusual in my experience in that it's quite big with a large ball at the end. I removed it since I can't abide the things.

 

puffermark

Junior Member
Feb 24, 2015
90
4
Next question, was this pipe bought from someone in South Africa?
Yes indeed. It came from Pretoria (now Tshwane) far North of where I am in Cape Town. A very rare find here. More common are the Sasieni made Sashar sub-brand (of which I have 7, all great smokers) and which were, I believe, made specifically for the South African market. Certainly it's the only one dot of which I am aware. One of of my pipe club members has a couple of 4 dots, but I believe they were all sourced from overseas, whether from the US or UK I'm not sure.
Going by my experience of collecting locally, I would guess it somehow reached our shores from the UK, or less likely from elsewhere in Europe. I am not aware that other 'main brand' Sasienis were imported or sold by local dealers (aside from the aforementioned Sashars).
I'll shoot off a mail to the seller and ask if he has any further info.
Thanks again for all the interest. Great hobby this.

 

puffermark

Junior Member
Feb 24, 2015
90
4
Not that I can see, jguss. But here's a couple of pics of the contraption. Looks like the idea was that it would be able to pass a cleaner in situ as it were, but just how well that would work, I don't know.



 

ssjones

Moderator
Staff member
May 11, 2011
14,104
88
Maryland
Very interesting. I would have assumed the stinger was a threaded, screw-in piece. The friction fit were more commonly found on the sub-brands (like Sashar mentioned above). Does the tenon have threads inside it? I suppose the stinger could have been put in the wrong pipe at some point. Did the seller have other pipes for sale?