Charatan Mayfair 2109 Rhodesian

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bungee

Senior Member
Oct 31, 2015
372
0
I know nothing about classic British pipes, but this one looked gorgeous and "smelled" as a good smoke...
Opinions?
Cheers,
J




 

georged

Preferred Member
Mar 7, 2013
2,598
2
It's actually probably French. Or, more precisely, an English design made in a French factory.
Nice piece in its own right, though. The Double Comfort stem is a "love 'em or hate 'em" thing, and someone buffed the stem when it was off the pipe, but that's it.
Enjoy!

 

ssjones

Moderator
Staff member
May 11, 2011
14,082
62
Maryland
That is the newer version of Chartan, but they always look good. The 109 is one of my favorite Charatan shapes, particularly with a tapered (non DC) stem.
I had this one, a "Rough" grade and sold it to a buddy when a nicer "Special" came along. The Rough was an incredible smoker and one I regret selling (I'm sure he'd sell it back to me if I asked). The Special surprisingly turned out to be a mediocre smoker with a clunky button. Sold it as well. Now, I wish that I would have "Dibose'd" that pipe with a proper stem. Regrets, I've had a few....



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DtpGgdBzy2Q

 

mso489

Preferred Member
Feb 21, 2013
25,886
63
Nice classic bulldog with handsome proportions. Many of the classic English shapes came from France, although I'm not sure where the bulldog originated. Love my dogs.

 

bungee

Senior Member
Oct 31, 2015
372
0
Georged, thanks for your answer.

The buffing I did myself and wasn't too subtle about it.

Although the pipe is NOS, the stem was very oxidized an looked orange/green :(

I repainted the logo with Liquid Paper.
Mike, thanks for the info!
SS, pitty about the "Rough", but you got rid of the mediocre "Special", so maybe you can call it even?

As always, very good information!
Cheers,
J

 

bungee

Senior Member
Oct 31, 2015
372
0
Thank you Mso and Jpmcwjr.
So, round shank is Rhodie, and square shank is Bulldog, right? This one is a bent bulldog then?
Cheers,
J

 

georged

Preferred Member
Mar 7, 2013
2,598
2
The buffing I did myself and wasn't too subtle about it.
:lol:
10-4. It's easy to get carried away.
Next time, wax the shank, then run a piece of matte Scotch tape around it a couple hundredths of an inch short of the end, and (gently!) get after the stem with it attached to the pipe. Doing that will keep the sharp edge where it meets the face of the shank from becoming rounded.

 

gloucesterman

Preferred Member
Jan 4, 2015
1,861
0
Massachusetts
And that designation dispute still haunts us today. It would see that even manufactures couldn't agree on round vs. diamond shank as the basis for classifications.

 

danielplainview

Preferred Member
Mar 30, 2014
2,852
2
wv
That's a good looking pipe. No worries I rounded a couple stems starting out. Trial and error. If you've only cleaned up a few pipes, I think you're doing pretty good out of the gate. The rounded stem shank connection can be fixed pretty easy.
Show us some before and after shots on your next one.

 

jpmcwjr

Preferred Member
May 12, 2015
13,474
49
Monterey Peninsula
Even Charlatan's chart people could have made a mistake, and the 109 on that chart looks to have a rounded shank. In any event, modern consensus makes the distinction based on shank shape, no?

 

bungee

Senior Member
Oct 31, 2015
372
0
Hello Dave,
It is good to know that the rounded stem shank connection can be fixed!

Could you please explain how can I do it?
I cleaned a bunch of stems so far (I submerge them in OxyClean overnight, then I sand them with 1500 and 2500 sandpaper, then micromesh to 3200 and finish with Vim followed by polishing tow or burlap) but this one was in very bad shape and took a lot of rubbing, plus I think the vulcanite was a bit softer.
I only restored two pipes so far, two identical Butz Choquin Capitan 1631 which were my father's.

Both were mangled by his dogs, and were full of teeth marks, scratches and every kind of ding you can imagine. And the stems where very heavily oxidized.
Here are a couple of pics. Any advise on how to make the look better would be very welcome.
Cheers,
J



 

jpmcwjr

Preferred Member
May 12, 2015
13,474
49
Monterey Peninsula
Those look awfully good as posted! And nice photo work, too. Only way to make them much better for me would be if you could get Charlize Theron to pose with them.

 

ssjones

Moderator
Staff member
May 11, 2011
14,082
62
Maryland
Those shape names we use today are our choices. Yes, most folks (myself included) call a round shank a Rhodesian and diamond, a Bulldog. But the British companies seemed to call only straight shank pipes bulldogs and any bent, regardless of stem shape a Rhodesian.
See this Upshall chart, they did the same thing (perhaps following Charatans lead).

http://www.upshallusa.com/shape_chart.htm
And Dunhill

http://pipepages.com/dpsc8.htm

http://pipepages.com/dpsc4.htm
The shape/height of the bowl seemed to have more to do with the name choice in catalogs than the stem/shank shape.

 

newbroom

Preferred Member
Jul 11, 2014
5,493
3
I think of a 'bulldog' as having the stem shape continue into the bowl with a sharp bottom line from a diamond shank.

A Rhodesian stem I consider to be round allowing for the bowl to be more completely round and full, very similar to the author. The primary difference being the grooves in the rim area. They tend to be heavier than a bully, in my opinion, because they incorporate more material.

Both of course, are 1/4 bent.

 

jpmcwjr

Preferred Member
May 12, 2015
13,474
49
Monterey Peninsula
I am with your till the last sentence. I prefer a quarter bend, but that's not necessary for it to be a bulldog, is it? Maybe for a rhodie, but that's a guess.