Cellar Jars Sealing Themselves?

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av8scuba

Member
Jan 4, 2013
299
0
Mid-Missouri
About 2 months ago I stocked up on some of my favorite bulk blends. After distributing it among my Ball half-pint canning jars (with flats and rings), I placed it in my cellaring room that stays about 72F degrees year-round. Recently, I've been hearing the jars "pop" as the jar "cans" itself.
Is this normal? I'm assuming the air in the jar is being consumed by the aging process so it is drawing somewhat of a vacuum?

 

petes03

Preferred Member
Jun 23, 2013
5,245
2
Yep, I usually check my jars after a few days and they've usually sealed themselves by then.

 

peckinpahhombre

Preferred Member
Dec 24, 2012
7,118
50
yep, that sound is normal. I leave them for a week after filling them and then I check them to ensure they are sealed. I then dip the top of each jar into melted paraffin wax until just past the lid line.

 

peckinpahhombre

Preferred Member
Dec 24, 2012
7,118
50
My middle name is overkill, lol. I saw a thread on another forum where some of the guys lids started to rust and the seal in the canning jar degraded. Someone said they protect against this by using wax, so I thought what the hell - I had an old slow cooker, bought a block of high quality paraffin wax, liquified the wax, and dipped all my jars. I don't know if it will do anything but at minimum the jars look really cool, lol.

 

flakyjakey

Preferred Member
Aug 21, 2013
1,118
1
The lids to Kilner jars are glass, so they won't rust. The gaskets give a very good seal, but I'm more concerned about your comment about the possibility of the rubber perishing?

 

peckinpahhombre

Preferred Member
Dec 24, 2012
7,118
50
You will mock me but another thing I use those bale jars for is to hold my 16 oz tins of Briar Fox. I have heard many say these large tins are unreliable and are prone to rust and separation. These large tins fit perfectly into those airtight silicone bale jars, which should help protect them. The only other tobacco I collect that I buy in large tins is Anni Kake, but I mason jar that stuff because it is so wet - I am worried even if I bale jar the AK, the moisture will cause internal rust.

 

peckinpahhombre

Preferred Member
Dec 24, 2012
7,118
50
Are the seals in the Kilner jars silicone or rubber? All the glass bale jars I have seen up here have rubber seals. Only the acrylic ones I found at walmart had silicone seals.

 

flakyjakey

Preferred Member
Aug 21, 2013
1,118
1
The Kilner jars I'm using are definitely glass - I know cos i smashed one and I only have 11 now! They seem to have rubber seals, but if they're siliconised all the better

 

profpar

Senior Member
Dec 8, 2011
318
0
Buford, Georgia
Assuming that the jars are filled at a temperature greater tan 72F, this appears to simply be an application of Guy-Lussac's law. When the jar is filled the air and vapor pressure equilibrates with the ambient pressure of the atmosphere. Sealing the jar makes it a closed constant volume system, As the temperature drops, the pressure inside the jar lowers. Since the pressure inside the jar is now lower than the ambient pressure, a vacuum occurs. This is what I think is happening.

 

peckinpahhombre

Preferred Member
Dec 24, 2012
7,118
50
Ross, I use the Damp-Rid too, just in case, lol.
Here are a couple of shots of my cellar - it is a little disorganized at present because I am moving stuff around to install another shelf because one of my shelves is starting to bend a bit.
In the first shot, you can see my bale jars and how they are used.

In the second shot, you sill see that I cellar the square and rectangular tins in containers with silicone seals as an added layer of protection - some think the square and rectangular tins are much more iffy for long term cellaring that the round tins, so I thought, what the hell:


 

peckinpahhombre

Preferred Member
Dec 24, 2012
7,118
50
I was chatting to one of the guys on here sometime back and he told me about using those silicon air tight containers. He said he lost several square and rectangular tins over the years. He said he has been using these for the last number of years, and even then, on ocassion when he opens up the container he smells tobacco because the one or two of the tins have lost their seal. However, the tobacco was still good and was not dust like it would be if the tin popped outside the container. He also said that he has less tins lose their seal in the first place because the container acts as a buffer against temperature and air pressure changes. That said, others have told me they have had no issues with the square tins (though over how many years I am not sure)- still, if you want to cellar the stuff for 20 or 30 years being cautious I thought made sense.

 

rebornbriar

Member
Aug 21, 2013
250
0
United Kingdom
flakeyjakey, there are 2 types of Kilner jar, the glass lid clip type and the metal screw ring/lid type.

For long term storage I would prefer the screw lid type.
Peck, that cellar has more stock than any tobacconist shop I have ever been in :)

 

pchitti

Member
Aug 26, 2013
193
0
Central Texas
Allan you are correct sir. I always love seeing pics of people that put my storage to shame. Helps convince my wife it could be worse. lol

 

flakyjakey

Preferred Member
Aug 21, 2013
1,118
1
Thanks rebornbriar - that's what I needed. I have been using the version on the left. I will now keep the tobaccos in them for relatively short-term ageing (? a year) and get some on the right for the long-term. the jars are cheap, but the tobacco is not!
More £££, more space! "Her Indoors" will go doolally (another word from the British Raj!). I feel the need for a pre-emptive strike - do you still do jewellery?!

 

gwtwdbss

Preferred Member
Jun 13, 2012
2,942
0
Love the pics Peck. Very impressive. I hope to one day have a room with ample shelving for my stash. Until then I will keep using large plastic tubs. But someday, it will be all prettily displayed on a shelf in a darkened room or walk in closet.

 

phred

Preferred Member
Dec 11, 2012
1,755
0
I use wire bail-top jars for short-term storage (no space for a proper cellar yet...), but I've been using swing-top bottles for homebrew for years, using rubber washers to seal. Rubber will degrade after time, so I always got in the habit of inspecting bottle seals and replacing any that show signs of wear. Beer and ale are short-term products, so the issues of long-term storage haven't been top of my list - but mead gets better the longer you age it, and I've so far had no issues with rubber swing-top seals degrading to the point of failure while in use. Of course, even with that said, the only reason I've ever let a bottle of homebrewed mead last more than a couple of years was because I misfiled a bottle with my "empties" by accident... :D