Capstan Also Has Ketchup

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workman

Preferred Member
Jan 5, 2018
1,702
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I just popped a tin of Capstan Blue Flake. The very first tin note is definitely vinegary, bordering on ketchup. Raisins, vinegar, ketchup, these come to mind. I know from experience that this will change in a few days to a less vinegary sweetness.

I have no experience with McClelland blends, but I always see them described as "ketchupy". I have no love for ketchup, but I do love Capstan Blue, and it is ketchupy on first whiff.

 

sablebrush52

Preferred Member
Jun 15, 2013
9,711
357
What you're smelling is likely the acid used as a preservative. McClelland always reminds me of acetic acid. It's been awhile since I last smoked Capstan so I don't remember the vinegar smell, but have no reason to doubt it. Vinegar has been used as a preservative for many years.

 

sparroa

Preferred Member
Dec 8, 2010
1,466
0
I have some Capstan Blue cellared on the basis of its iconic reputation alone but I have never gotten around to opening a tin.
I like it whenever a blend leads me into a brief reverie about McClelland but that seldom occurs. The vinegary Ketchup-like aroma or the sudden burst of tangy Virginia sweetness are the most likely causes...

 

jazz

Preferred Member
Feb 17, 2014
787
0
UK
Can't even buy this in the UK anymore which drives me up the proverbial.

 

workman

Preferred Member
Jan 5, 2018
1,702
7
I don't get this vinegar/ketchup note from any other virginia blends, that I've tried. OGS, FVF, BBF, none of them have it.

 

cosmicfolklore

Preferred Member
Aug 9, 2013
18,110
451
When I am forcing the ammonia’s off of my own Virginias that I grew, I stop when they start to get a vinegary smell, but I can’t that smell to stay. It dissipates pretty quickly for me. M

I tried using acetic acids, and even a few different types of vinegars on my own blends, to see if that might make it more ketchupy, but All I would get was catpiss aromas, ha ha. But, I am a novice, and I’m not privy to the secrets of these blenders. But, I did read in Greg Pease’s blog on this site that vinegar is not a good mold inhibitor, and I did get mold on some blends that I tried the acids and vinegars on. But, like I said, I am not an expert. But, when I did get that smell, it was a natural thing not anything I added. I wish I did know how they do it. I miss the hell out of McClellands.
Of course Greg is not known for getting that ketchupy smell either, and it may be some other reason these companies may be using vinegars. Maybe it serves some other purpose in the blends. We sort fo’ deduced from Per of MacBarens saying that ODF had vinegar that they may have used it for mold inhibotors, but he didn’t say that. Maybe it is used to acidity the blend, or as a casing, or to meld the flavors more, or preventing aliens from stealing our children. Or maybe he just wants the tins to rust, so we will buy more ODF and smoke it faster. Who knows?

 

cosmicfolklore

Preferred Member
Aug 9, 2013
18,110
451
Rattrays Virginia blends has that smell, so does some 4Noggins VA and occasionally I have gotten a whiff from an aged tin of D&R.

 

jazz

Preferred Member
Feb 17, 2014
787
0
UK
We sort fo’ deduced from Per of MacBarens saying that ODF had vinegar
I was about to write that the only tobacco I have tried that had anything close to a vinegar/ketchup smell when I have opened the tin was Old Dark Fired. Less a ketchup smell, though. More a vinegary BBQ sauce whiff.

 

jazz

Preferred Member
Feb 17, 2014
787
0
UK
Rattrays Virginia blends has that smell
That's interesting to me. I'm quite the fan of the Rattray's Virginia blends and even though I feel inclined to say I know what you mean I never actually get a vinegar smell off of them. I get a sort of sour milk pong which I'm sure sounds odd :D

 

cosmicfolklore

Preferred Member
Aug 9, 2013
18,110
451
I now have cabinet full of different types of vinegars and food grade acids, because of all of the experimenting. I may just be sensing vinegar-like qualities. But, to me BBQ sauce is vinegary, to different degrees.

 

workman

Preferred Member
Jan 5, 2018
1,702
7
I don't remember the tin note of Hal o' the Wynd. The flavor has an acidic tangy dimension, which I have attributed to some red virginias. It has also bitten me a few times. But I am merely guessing, as I hardly qualify as an experienced pipe smoker yet.

 

sparroa

Preferred Member
Dec 8, 2010
1,466
0
There is no mistaking Hal o' The Wynd for a McClelland blend but it has given me some very brief hints of McClelland flavour from time to time. I don't get ketchup from HotW so I think it is just well-matured Virginias that bring back some memories...

 

bigpond

Preferred Member
Oct 14, 2014
2,023
0
The level of vinegar in hh Bold Kentucky is surprisingly bracing and very reminiscent of McC. It’s far lower in gg Pure Va.

 

cosmicfolklore

Preferred Member
Aug 9, 2013
18,110
451
Just something I’ve noticed, but I have never smelled golden or light Virginias with a vinegary or ketchupy smell. It has always been blends with red virginias. Not all reds, but the ones that have that smell have been reds. And, the red color comes from a fermentation after flue curing. Isn’t HH Pure Virgina a golden blend? But, of course I have yet to sample all tobaccos on the market... yet.

 

hoosierpipeguy

Preferred Member
Jan 28, 2018
2,023
153
Rattrays Virginia blends has that smell,
Smoked lots of McClellands. I agree with Cosmic on this one. Rattrays not as strong a scent but when you first open the tin, the resemblance is clearly there.

 

bigpond

Preferred Member
Oct 14, 2014
2,023
0
Butera golden cake has a lot of ketchup. HH Pure is red, brown and gold, probably in that order. You’d never mistake it for McC but I think it’s pretty solid if you open your mind to it. Not a skirt lifter by any stretch but I really like it’s subtle charm. Orange, almond a bit of wood and some malt. Gotta take ‘er slow.
McC said, as you are all too familiar, I’m sure, the ketchup was a side effect of proper maturation and fermentation and not vinegar. I don’t remember ever noticing a strong ketchup aroma in a blend with a lot of African va’s regardless of age, come to think of it

 

cigrmaster

Preferred Member
May 26, 2012
13,668
672
United States
I have been smoking tins of 2013 Capstan Blue flake for a while now and I have never noticed a ketchup smell. I definitely get that smell when I open a tin of Butera Dark Stoved.