I know whenever organic was talked about in business school they always use it to market to above average income families.
Cant stop thinking this after shopping at Whole Foods....
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There have been several scientific studies that compared organic food nutritionally to the regular stuff and found no difference whatever. In fact, google banana cloning and you will see that organic or not, you are eating the same banana over and over again. Though lacking in pesticide, there is a higher risk of E.coli and other gut bacteria present on organic foods due to the all-natural poo used to fertilize. The same process (washing) that you use to rid organic food of these organisms will also rid ordinary food of the pesticides that everyone worries about. It's all marketing.
Regarding tobacco, assaad is right on the money. Good luck trying to get tobacco farms around the world to go organic. If you have a blend with African virginias, Turkish orientals, and Syrian latakia, then you have a fat chance that you'd ever get organic certification even if all hands followed loosely organic methods. It would not be a bad thing if tobacco was organic, because I don't see how we could lose; I just think that it is too unlikely to even talk about.
(Again, some small scale organic tobacco may be on the market, but I can't see it getting bigger than RYO or maybe a new cigarette brand. American Spirits, which use the "natural" moniker, are not organic)
photoman13,
That's because the profiteers are latching onto the concept. It doesn't have to be that way. I believe that organic farming and sustainable agriculture in general can feed all but we import most of our food where I live and the grocery stores charge a steep premium for organics. You would have to have an above average income to eat that way... I read Organic Inc by Samuel Fromartz not long ago, and that looks at how the industry has consolidated and how you see a marketing shift towards an "upscale" image for organics. The reality is, however, that most of our food is artificially cheap and that processed foods cost more in the long run.
Spartan,
I'm not trying to make a mountain out of a molehill, I just didn't understand your metaphor. Seatbelts are a mandatory around here and they have been for my entire life, so I don't particularly see that as a bad or nonsensical thing. Thanks for clarifying that for me.
Baron Samedi,
I'm just going to have to agree to disagree on just about all of the premises you've listed above. I think there are numerous oversimplifications in your statement.
(Again, some small scale organic tobacco may be on the market, but I can't see it getting bigger than RYO or maybe a new cigarette brand. American Spirits, which use the "natural" moniker, are not organic)
photoman13,
That's because the profiteers are latching onto the concept. It doesn't have to be that way. I believe that organic farming and sustainable agriculture in general can feed all but we import most of our food where I live and the grocery stores charge a steep premium for organics. You would have to have an above average income to eat that way... I read Organic Inc by Samuel Fromartz not long ago, and that looks at how the industry has consolidated and how you see a marketing shift towards an "upscale" image for organics. The reality is, however, that most of our food is artificially cheap and that processed foods cost more in the long run.
Spartan,
I'm not trying to make a mountain out of a molehill, I just didn't understand your metaphor. Seatbelts are a mandatory around here and they have been for my entire life, so I don't particularly see that as a bad or nonsensical thing. Thanks for clarifying that for me.
Baron Samedi,
I'm just going to have to agree to disagree on just about all of the premises you've listed above. I think there are numerous oversimplifications in your statement.
This isn't exactly scientific, but it fits my opinion of the whole all-natural/organic industry.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Jq4DGEn9Is
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Jq4DGEn9Is
Adam 12, that is hilarious. I agree and have heard that organic does increase the e-coli possibility as I would imagine other nastinesses. Soil depletion from the use of chemicals is a true threst. It has been said that our U.S. soil is extremely deficient in selenium and other trace minerals. Don"t know if we could meet the populations demand for food if it was all to be ORGANIC. :?
Lazydog, North American soils and foods are lacking in a lot of minerals relative to 40 or 50 years ago. Soil depletion is a very big problem throughout the world and desertification is a scary reality. That being said, you can avoid soil depletion and still use genetically modified foods. I'm not an agricultural scientist but if genetically modified foods are safe you can use the seeds with sustainable farming practices and still meet the demand. Most people think it must be completely organic or completely industrial, why not use the best of both worlds?
C&D's Organic Pipe Dreams is the only organic tobacco I've ever seen. The last I heard, it was discontinued which is a shame because it was a good smoke. I suspect it was too expensive to produce since tobacco plants are notoriously susceptible to bugs and some of their eggs can survive into the finished product without non-organic processing. I still have one tin of Organic Pipe Dreams waiting to be opened but I will not be surprised if the tobacco turns out to be bad since it is a couple of years old which seems like a long time for a product that has not been put through the chemical ringer. Either way, it will be an interesting experience to see what has happened inside that tin.
Just to add a couple to the list, although they aren't pipe tobaccos:
American Spirit, the New Mexico cigarette company, makes quite a few different organic cigarettes: RYO cigarette tobacco, filtered cigarettes and I believe lights as well. I smoked the rolling tobacco (in cigarettes) for a number of years, and tried it in a pipe at least a few times. It's one-dimensional, as you would probably expect cigarette tobacco to be, but it was my cigarette tobacco for a number of years.
Swedish Match, one of the largest producers of Swedish snus, has a "Green Harvest" version of their popular General mark of snus that is made with organic tobacco. I have a tin of it in my stash, but haven't gotten around to trying it yet.
Best,
.cyb
American Spirit, the New Mexico cigarette company, makes quite a few different organic cigarettes: RYO cigarette tobacco, filtered cigarettes and I believe lights as well. I smoked the rolling tobacco (in cigarettes) for a number of years, and tried it in a pipe at least a few times. It's one-dimensional, as you would probably expect cigarette tobacco to be, but it was my cigarette tobacco for a number of years.
Swedish Match, one of the largest producers of Swedish snus, has a "Green Harvest" version of their popular General mark of snus that is made with organic tobacco. I have a tin of it in my stash, but haven't gotten around to trying it yet.
Best,
.cyb
I've accidentally grabbed an organic vegetable at the supermarket just because I wasn't paying attention. Realized it at the register and took it all the way back to the produce section to exchange it for the "real thing". Guess I'd consider myself "anti-organic". Never agreed with it much. Got a good kick out of Baron's Penn & Teller video :clap:
The Penn and Teller episode about martial arts had me in tears by the end. Those guys are hilarious. I like the show because they make observations about cultural memes that most peole are afraid to broadcast. Their episode about second hand smoke is funny, too.
adam12, that was very funny, ever think of doing stand up or being a comedy writer? Seriously, you do have a gift.
I don't trust anything that says organic when it comes from Mexico, or Chili, or any South American country. I also have serious doubts about the organic products from Publix here in Florida. I do trust Whole Foods because they do the research on their farmers and have strict quality controls. I personally will not spend the extra money, the odds of me dying from some piece of fruit or vegetable or meat, that isn't organic, is slim to none in my opinion. Besides, the way I smoke and drink that will kill me off a lot quicker. :lol:
I don't trust anything that says organic when it comes from Mexico, or Chili, or any South American country. I also have serious doubts about the organic products from Publix here in Florida. I do trust Whole Foods because they do the research on their farmers and have strict quality controls. I personally will not spend the extra money, the odds of me dying from some piece of fruit or vegetable or meat, that isn't organic, is slim to none in my opinion. Besides, the way I smoke and drink that will kill me off a lot quicker. :lol:
John,
I'm afraid I just can't comprehend your stance on this. It sounds like you are against something that you haven't given more than a moment's thought; at first glance, it doesn't seem like you have put much time into considering all the angles of such a complex issue... A lot of the fruits and vegetables that we accept for the "real thing" at grocery stores are nutritionally hollow shells compared to the produce that was available decades ago. The quality has diminished. I personally think that soil depletion due to conventional farming methods is mostly to blame...
Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to force my opinion down your throat - just as someone who is interested in pursuing organic agriculture in the future I am a little mystified as to why you would hold such strong beliefs about organics without stating any reason for your position.
I say all that being as polite and respectful as possible, as I mean to cause no offense to you personally... This is just a pipe forum after all so you are not obliged to answer my questions.
I'm afraid I just can't comprehend your stance on this. It sounds like you are against something that you haven't given more than a moment's thought; at first glance, it doesn't seem like you have put much time into considering all the angles of such a complex issue... A lot of the fruits and vegetables that we accept for the "real thing" at grocery stores are nutritionally hollow shells compared to the produce that was available decades ago. The quality has diminished. I personally think that soil depletion due to conventional farming methods is mostly to blame...
Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to force my opinion down your throat - just as someone who is interested in pursuing organic agriculture in the future I am a little mystified as to why you would hold such strong beliefs about organics without stating any reason for your position.
I say all that being as polite and respectful as possible, as I mean to cause no offense to you personally... This is just a pipe forum after all so you are not obliged to answer my questions.
I don't go out of my way to eat organic because the rules for what qualifies are being so messed with, you cannot fully trust the label anymore—that said, in many cases, organic just tastes better. Go to a regular supermarket and buy a red tomato and then visit your farmers market and buy an organic heirloom tomato.
When you cut it open, the reg tomato looks mostly pink and white while the heirloom is blood red - looks like a piece of raw bloody steak. Both the nutrients and taste between the two are night and day. People have forgotten what real food used to look like and taste like.
And don't forget, what you eat affects your mood, intellect, stamina, etc., etc. What you put in is what you get out.
When you cut it open, the reg tomato looks mostly pink and white while the heirloom is blood red - looks like a piece of raw bloody steak. Both the nutrients and taste between the two are night and day. People have forgotten what real food used to look like and taste like.
And don't forget, what you eat affects your mood, intellect, stamina, etc., etc. What you put in is what you get out.
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