Briar Quality in Dunhill

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sasquatch

Lifer
Jul 16, 2012
1,689
2,885
Let's start with what works - I have explored the pipe world in earnest for about 10 years, hunting that ultimate smoking experience. Learned a bit, I think, at fairly large cost over the years. I'll cut to the chase - the best smoker you can just go out and buy off the rack is a Castello. Time and time again. So that's air cured Italian briar. Can you subject a pipe to any number of processes during construction? Yeah, you could soak it, boil it, put it on a shelf, put it in the dryer... I don't care, it won't be a better smoker than that Castello. I've had oil-cured Shells, you name it. It's all bullshit, all gimmicks. Good wood, good construction, good pipe.
If you think back to some of these curing processes, some of them started as ways to hurry the air-cure, or ways to treat otherwise inferior briar (reading Alf's old Shell patent documents, that's the feeling I was left with - he had some briar he didn't like so much). If you are moving 400,000 pipes a year, you are buying a lot of wood, and no one, NO one, ever sat on 10 wearhouses of 1000000 blocks each for 30 years or any of that silly crap. Wood gets dumped off the truck, zipped into pipes and sold. So any process that might unify, expidite or in some other way help (say, by finding bowls that are prone to cracking before they are sold) is going to be implemented.
An artisan pipe is inspected, hand held, 10" from the guy's face, for 10 hours. If the briar isn't good, he'll know. I had a block once, I cut it, smelled like a swamp. Bluck. I kid not. I threw it out! Big factory makes that into a pipe and sells it.
To answer the question directly, I try to let my blocks sit 2 years - this is Mimmo's recommendation as being the steepest part of the curve, and I agree with him. The wood seems more stable, harder, etc. Seems to smoke uniformally well. So new wood just goes into drawers or onto the shelf at my place. There is lots of older wood available - some is great, some is not so great, but I have some on hand for those who want it. But again, I don't think after 3 smokes anyone could tell the difference between 3 year old Ligurian briar and 10 year old Tuscan. And I'm happy to make and sell a pair of pipes to anyone who wants to explore this. :wink:
Good wood (non-swamp), good drilling, good stem work (clean airway), good smoker. It really is that simple, but we LOVE our myths, we love the midnight briar, we love the magic dip, the secret rights, the provenance of pipery. It's hard to shake out.

 
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jpberg

Lifer
Aug 30, 2011
2,953
6,694
I’ll stretch way out on the thin limb and assume it’s hyperbole. 4,000, 40,000, 400,000. Does the number of zeros change the crux of the post?

 

jaytex1969

Lifer
Jun 6, 2017
9,520
50,598
Here
Cobs grow in 100 days, not 100 years.... :nana:
jay-roger.jpg


 

sasquatch

Lifer
Jul 16, 2012
1,689
2,885
I'll have to check, but I didn't mean for the 400,000 number to be hyperbole, it's a number I have in my head with regard to yearly production in the heyday of one of the big houses, but I can't remember which, why, or where I got the number.
Castello makes 4000 pipes a year with 6 guys on the floor. Mechanize it more and put 60 guys on the floor, I don't think 100,000 is hard, I suspect Peterson still does something like that in a year.

 

sasquatch

Lifer
Jul 16, 2012
1,689
2,885
Again, just quickly here, from pipedia:
"More recentely Gubbels got known as producer of the Porsche¹ and Bugatti design pipes. Elbert Gubbels & Zonen B.V. is one of the worldwide biggest pipe producers today. Annually 250,000 - 300,000 pipes are made by ca. 60 employees. More than 70% of the production is exported."

 
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npod

Lifer
Jun 11, 2017
2,942
1,024
Fantastic thread. I’ve been following since it started. I’ve nothing to add, but letting y’all know it’s being followed.

 

beefeater33

Lifer
Apr 14, 2014
4,090
6,195
Central Ohio
This is a wonderful thread! Lot's of good information. FWIW, there's an article on smokingpipes.com about Dunhill which states that in 1924 Dunhill was selling 240,000 pipes a year through its Duke St. store.............. I can only wager that the number grew quite a bit by the 1950's-60's.........

 

saltedplug

Lifer
Aug 20, 2013
5,194
5,100
Good wood (non-swamp), good drilling, good stem work (clean airway), good smoker. It really is that simple, but we LOVE our myths, we love the midnight briar, we love the magic dip, the secret rights, the provenance of pipery. It's hard to shake out.
I'm with you exactly. It's hard for me to know my feelings about pipe quality. When I was young in the addiction, I read with avidity the opinions of my elders who said superior pipes had one or another quality making them so: the wood, the "engineering," (a completely inflated term for drilling a straight channel that enters the chamber bottom-center), the stem, etc. In my smoking only the drilling was important, though I did come to appreciate a comfortable stem.
I was told that Ashtons, Castellois, .etc., were superior, and given that the prices of artisan pipes range from expensive to stratospheric, surely they must smoke better. But they just don't, though I wish they did. Wouldn't it be grand if you could own and enjoy such a pipe?

 

sasquatch

Lifer
Jul 16, 2012
1,689
2,885
Better than what, a basket pipe with a pinched stem and a rough tenon?
I'll put my money on the Castello. (In fact I do once in awhile.)

 

sablebrush52

The Bard Of Barlings
Jun 15, 2013
19,765
45,326
Southern Oregon
jrs457.wixsite.com
So, there's no value to how the parts fit together along the airway, or how a stem is shaped? It may be a high falutin' term to refer to "engineering" when talking about pipes, but I'll accept it, considering the variable approaches that different carvers take.
Still, there's a bit of the unknown in all of this. You can produce a pipe by the numbers and one will smoke better than its mate. Briar doesn't arrive prefabricated.

 

psperrytops

Lurker
Sep 15, 2016
12
0
I want to thank all of you for the wonderful responses. I have learned more about briar reading this thread than I could have gleaned in a hundred years of internet searches (perhaps an exaggeration). Ken's insights and knowledge are phenomenal. I am definitely going to explore Upshall when it comes to my next purchase, and I see from their website that they are just becoming available in the US. Still blown away by the amazing discussion here. I am thrilled the discussion moved into aging briar as that would have been my next question. Thanks, everybody.

 

kenbarnes

Can't Leave
Nov 12, 2015
441
374
I am definitely going to explore Upshall when it comes to my next purchase, and I see from their website that they are just becoming available in the US

Hi psperrytops. I started James Upshall in 1978 with craftsman Barry Jones (from Charatan). They first became available in the U.S. in 1979. Regrettably the factory closed down some years ago.

Today, I spent the day with Barry Jones at the factory, looking for more stuff I can save before it gets 'binned'.

We had a great day today and I brought eight of my new pipes along for his inspection. He thought that they were 1st class! I told him that I had the best teacher ever - a really top flight craftsman who had such amazing patience with me in the very early days at Charatan (1974-1975) and the next phase of our journey at James Upshall. We have had lots of laughs today and, on leaving, I felt quite sad that the factory looked so run down and... it's the end of an era.

 

gnarlybriar

Might Stick Around
Jun 11, 2009
66
24
74
Chesterfield, VA
I too learned a LOT from this post! Thank you Ken and Sas!

Just an aside: At one of the CORPS Expos years ago, we hosted a "pipe makers' forum" for the audience to "learn what pipe makers (attending) did to their briar, how they picked what would be good smokes, etc.
We got responses such as: I (the pipemaker) lick the briar - if it tastes sweet, it will be a sweet smoking pipe! Another was "sand a little off of the sides of the block - snort the sawdust slightly as if it were snuff - and if it is dry and reminds me of bread, it will smoke great!" Another was "turn a straight grain block on it's side, create a pipe with as much birdseye as possible - that will make the best smoker." These responses were from, at the time, revered US pipe makers!
Funny, neither Sas or Ken mentioned any of those.

 

sasquatch

Lifer
Jul 16, 2012
1,689
2,885
Rainer Barbi would tell about having blocks that smelled like baking bread when he cut them, and he swore that these always made remarkable pipes, pipes that the customer would rave about.
I'm convinced he was utterly full of crap, and intentionally so - a shyster (scheisster in this case!). A very German style of joke actually. How many star-struck pipesters asked that question, over and over.... I'm convinced he made up an ingenuous sounding answer that was completely unproveable (unfalsifiable too) and laughed his ass off. Eventually these "rumors" must have gone through all of pipedom, and anyone ever to cut a block of briar would be smelling away, hoping for that bready smell. They all smell like that, really, when you cut 'em.
It's good fun.

 

mso489

Lifer
Feb 21, 2013
41,210
60,459
Thanks kenbarnes for all the inside info from one who has dug briar by hand himself. It looks like heavy heavy labor and if the briar harvesters had leverage on their price, pipes would cost a lot more. It looks like a job for the very young and fit. Just getting to the product is a trek.

 
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