Antique Cutter Top - Knife Lid Tobacco Tin Survey And Excavation. (image heavy

[misterlowercase]

Cutter top or knife lid tobacco tins are exquisite objects of beauty, even moreso when the shiny silver top remains unbroken and has gone all with extended age.
The design was an incredible advance in tobacco packaging and the form was an ingenious invention.
They were patented in 1885 by William Blizzard Williams & Sons.
The tins revolutionized tobacco packaging. It was such an important innovation that Wills paid for exclusive rights for their exclusive use, on the tins it would say:

'This Patent Tin being perfectly air-tight is specially suitable for preserving Tobacco in fine condition in any climate'.

W.B. Williamson & Sons: Manufacturers of Baths, Boxes, Toilet Ware, Iron and Wood Coal Vases, Iron Tea Trays and Waiters, Bright Tinned Stamped Goods, Planished and Strong Common Tin Goods, &c. : Providence Works, Worcester
Specification No. 11,378 is the original patent, but I couldn't find it anywhere. Here's a supplemental entry for the lid which had been improved very early on in the development:

Patents for Inventions: Abridgments of Specifications
Here's a brief write-up of Williamson & Sons Providence Works,

http://www.worcestercitymuseums.org.uk/coll/object/oldobj1/obfeb1.htm
Use of patent airtight tins were usually noted in advertising also, like in this advert from 1898,

http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/cgi-bin/paperspast?a=d&d=DTN18981224.2.48.4.1

...and those airtight tins were also the perfect carrier and preserver for UK tobacco to be widely distributed in safe condition all across the far-flung British Empire.
Amazingly, these tins can still be found unopened and full of the good stuff. Cutter tops were made for a long time, all the way up until the late nineteen-sixties, in fairly large number. They usually sell at a premium price, but hope springs eternal for the happy accidental discovery, a fantastic find like this tin of Condor Sliced for $10 that Steve Laug snapped up and wrote about on his wonderful blog,

http://rebornpipes.wordpress.com/2013/10/11/tobacciana-dating-an-old-cutter-top-tin-of-condor-sliced/
Now to the eye-candy wonderland.
Note:

Several tins you'll notice have only partial labels, these are wartime tins when rationing was necessary and paper was not to be wasted.

(see here, under 'paper')

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rationing_in_the_United_Kingdom#Non-food_rations
Without further delay,

into the hallway of whirling knife lids!

 

[papipeguy]

Very interesting, as usual. Thanks.

 

[plateauguy]

I love the old tins. Thanks for sharing.

 

[allan]

Thanks so much for sharing those photos

 

[judcole]

Great pics! Thanks.

 

[misterlowercase]

Here's a couple more wartime tins.
These are examples of N.A.A.F.I. versions.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Navy,_Army_and_Air_Force_Institutes
These were recently auctioned.
This Westminster was a relatively obscure British American Tobacco-related product,

a Lat mixture methinks.

It sold for $91.59

Here is the more famous 3 Nuns, seen here in the Empire form, which is said to have been more stout.

It went for the bargain price of $42.93!

Both of those were out of my range, although I did bid on the Westminster because I thought that since it was somewhat obscure that it might go more unnoticed. I was incorrect about that.
However, I did get lucky with a surprise Christmas gift with another obscure tin, one that I actually forgot I had bid on because usually I'm always outbid, I was astonished to see that I had won it! A gamble at $25 because just one tiny pin-hole may have rendered it into mummydust, but the dice roll may actually pay off a handsome reward, it remains to be seen. The one blurry pic was horrible, I wrote the seller to verify that it was indeed unopened and had the shiny silver top intact, of which he assured me. So, I'm anxiously awaiting this thing to see it in the flesh. I have no idea what sort of blend it is, but thankfully I found a tin image w/ insert that gives a slight clue, I'm hoping for the best, but then again, I might be afraid to open it! LOL
Seen here:

SCOTS CAKE FLAKE TOBACCO-UNOPENED-THOMSON & PORTEOUS LTD. SCOTLAND

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[klause]

Evening Troy,
I scored the three nuns you listed above. Ii couldn't believe the other bidders let it go.
I was the second highest bid, but wimped out, on the Westminster. - that one was going to go sky high. Shame, as I've never tried that blend.

 

[misterlowercase]

Awesome dude!
You gotta good bargain there Jason,

enjoy it well, and hey, ifya want to, write it up like that Warhorse review you wrote, that was great to read and I enjoyed it immensely, and I'm sure whenever you decide to pop open the 3 Nuns it'll most surely be a divine Greenhouse event!!!
Cheers mate and many congrats on that wonderful tin, it looks damn-near pristine!
edit,

damn man, I did bid on the 3N, shit, sorry I drove up the price, I bid 25.25, now I feel like a schmuck, I got mixed up when I said I had bid on the Westminster...anyway, I still owe you my good man, for your incredible generosity, so after the New Year something your way will come!

 

[petes03]

Very cool stuff!

 

[klause]

Troy,
That Scott's Cake Flake is new to me - I should imagine you are in for a wonderful smoke if/when you decide to open it. How old is that?
Mate, you have to try it - I'm sure you will when the time is right - if not, what a fabulous treasure to have in your cellar??
When you decide to experience this unique treasure, let us know how it goes, eh?

 

[brian64]

Great pics once again misterlowercase...thanks. That’s got to be the Scarecrow from The Wizard of Oz on the Marcovitch tin. :lol:

 

[Dutch Pipe Smoker]

Another great post misterlowercase! I love those old knife cutter top tins. They are extremely good in preserving tobacco is my experience.

I have two of those tins and smoked from both of them: St. Bruno (about 60 years old I guess) and a tin of Craven Mixture (1930's). Two pictures from that last one are in the first post, I once wrote a blog-post about it: I crave for some Craven Mixture

Here is a picture of my St. Bruno tin with beside it a pouch of the current version:

 

[fishingandpipes]

Oh boy, I bet that St Bruno was something else! Jealous!
I've never seen a cutter top tin in person before, but I love seeing pictures of these old tins. I think I would have liked them.
I wonder why we never see real old vintage Sam Gawith or Gawith Hoggarth tins?

 

[Dutch Pipe Smoker]

Oh boy, I bet that St Bruno was something else! Jealous!

It was delicious and astoundingly well preserved. BUT very, very, very nicotine heavy. I already began to sway at a quarter of the bowl.. So I gave the rest of the tin away, send the tobacco home to some British pipe smokers.

 

[misterlowercase]

Arno,

I love that post, it's just great.

I'm jealous of your writing abilities, your style is enjoyable reading, especially how you can be so scholarly, yet playful at the same time, it's truly a gift and I thank you for sharing it with us.
But you also bring up an important point, that of intellectual property and creative rights, I mean those images belong to you because you created them and I did not ask your permission to reproduce them, I hope I have caused no offense, as no harm was intended on my part, I just wanted to compile a pictorial curation of these old tins, but it does raise questions as to exactly what is public domain in our new virtual environment?
It takes extra time to denote attributions and cite sources, but it would probably be the correct thing to do. My apologies for the trespass.
And thank you so much for the photo of that St. Bruno, it looks so well-preserved and fresh! Was the tasty essence still very flavorful as well? I love current production St. Bruno, but I'd bet pipesmokers who had it in original form might say it's only a shadow of its former self?
I've smoked St. Bruno from the 80's, but it was from a rectangular tin and its intense essence had diminished, it smoked more like a powerful natural Va. with only a slight trace of the full flavor.

 

[Dutch Pipe Smoker]

I love that post, it's just great.

I'm jealous of your writing abilities, your style is enjoyable reading, especially how you can be so scholarly, yet playful at the same time, it's truly a gift and I thank you for sharing it with us.

You make me blush! And I am jealous of your research qualities. God knows I do my homework before I post something but as deep as you go.. Woww..

But you also bring up an important point, that of intellectual property and creative rights, I mean those images belong to you because you created them and I did not ask your permission to reproduce them, I hope I have caused no offense, as no harm was intended on my part, I just wanted to compile a pictorial curation of these old tins, but it does raise questions as to exactly what is public domain in our new virtual environment?

Don't worry about my pics please! I was just pleasantly surprised when I saw them As far as I am concerned everyone can use my pics. It would be nice if my blog is mentioned but that is absolutely not necessary. I have a non-commercial blog and if a photo I made benefits general knowledge about pipe smoking than that is great.

And thank you so much for the photo of that St. Bruno, it looks so well-preserved and fresh! Was the tasty essence still very flavorful as well? I love current production St. Bruno, but I'd bet pipesmokers who had it in original form might say it's only a shadow of its former self?

It was well-preserved and fresh to my utter amazement! That hiss when I first punctured the foil and the smell that came from it.. Like literally sniffing the past. I don't like the soapy taste of current production St. Bruno and despite the old version also had it, I still very much liked the blend. A very full and round taste. Like I said I send the rest of the tin to some British pipe smokers and they all said it was the best smoke they ever had. A well spend $39!

 

[misterlowercase]

:worship:

Thanks Arno,

you're a trueblue goodguy!

8)

:

:

:

And right now I'm ecstatic with joy because the Scots Cake has arrived and its exceeded my expectations as far as condition issues go, I nearly fainted when I saw it and felt the full 4oz. heft of its majesty LOL
Really, it was exciting to behold, a glorious moment.
It has a sticker from a SF pipeshop on bottom.
It's slightly which is good news, but there are signs of rust so I dunno if a pinhole has penetrated the inner sanctum, but I have high hopes! The tax seal "series 119" would seem to date it to 1949 if I've got the correct info, the seller didn't lie about it being unopened and intact, along with still having the shiny silver top, and indeed it's a very fine specimen despite the paper label damage.

:D

(happy dance)
YOWZA !!!!!!!!

8O 8O 8O 8O 8O

 

[klause]

That is a thing of great beauty.
I think you have a truly blissful experience ahead of you there, Troy.
Enjoy that smoke. And, let us know how it goes.

 

[misterlowercase]

I was going thru the old ASP archives and found this:

...it's true that cigarettes don't go stale, and that they do dry out. If

kept properly humidified, the tobacco within them will remain just fine

for years. In fact, when cigarettes were packaged in knife-lid tins, the

tobacco would age just like pipe tobacco does. I've smoked some of these

that had remained sealed for decades, and the resulting smoke was

remarkable. Imagine something like Three Castles cigs, fermented and aged

for years to the point where the tobacco was nearly black, the papers

stained brown. If I could get those every day, I might be a cigarette

smoker!
-glp

...and it reminded me of the first cuttertop I ever opened, in fact the only one I've ever opened, the Sobranie #10 was sold off to fill empty pockets, a big mistake and regret on my part, but now I have that Scots Cake to look forward to with high hopes, anyway, the ciggy bit jostled my memories about the 777 tin, opening it was an almost erotic experience, the knife softly pierced top with a gentle whoosh, turning the knife-lid was like cutting thru butter, I rotated slow slow s l o w feeling the ever so slight resistence as complete penetration neared climax, the thin top lid dropped like a leaf falling on grasstip, the aroma was of an intense nose-tingling spiciness and a musty funk soon followed the initial release, I lifted the tab and pulled up, such an elegant beauty, I put one to my lips, an immediate acidic bitterness nearly numbing, the old brown paper had gained strange characteristics, the smoke was very strong, overwhelming, I was saturated by it, I became lost in the smoke, it carried me away, it burned too quickly, and the moment was gone, but the moments it gave were wondrous...
...then later, I cut open some of the ciggies to make up a good bowl in my pipe, it was also very intense. I also re-rolled a ciggy with a fresh new paper which was strong as well but not as sensorially powerful as the one with their original yellowed wrappers.
I still have a few left, I need to revisit it and assess its quality now that my palate has grown a bit more.

Also on ASP archive I found a relevant discussion by JCL

John C. Loring

9/12/97
I received my PipeSMOKE supplement today and could not believe the

Letter From The Editor, here's my reply:
Dear Mr. Schwartz:
With all respect I find certain of your comments in the Letter From The

Editior for the Fall issue of PipeSMOKE to be incredulous.

Specifically:
..."The prospect of a group of the devout at a pipe conclave, opening a

twenty year old tin of tobacco amid orgasmic sighs and emotional laments

for the way 'things' have changed brings sad smiles to the

manufacturers. They know that after such a long time, what you find in

the tin is either expensive straw, or worse, compost. Vacuum seals only

exhaust about 40% of the air. The remaining air will evaporate the

essential oils, just more slowly. The parallel is with overaged wine

which becomes expensive vinegar. Three years is optimal for tinned

tobacco, after six, forget it."...
Of one thing I am certain neither you nor your unnamed manufacturers

have had the recent pleasure of opening a twenty year old tin of one of

the classic English blends.
I am a heavy pipe smoker and blessed with a combination of good fortune

and foresight better then half the tobacco I smoke are English blends in

coin twist, pop top and knife-lid tins from the '80s or earlier. In the

vast majority the tobacco is quite fresh and the smoking characteristics

of truly matured and married virginia and latakia tobaccos are simply

wonderful. Anyone who tells you that these two tobaccos do not very

significantly develop over three or four decades either does not know

what he or she is talking about or is dissembling.
Older tins of course are not without their pitfalls, over the years

poorly stored tins can rust through, knife-lid tins (used from the '20s

to the early '70s) can develop interior rust, square or rectangular coin

twist tins are particularly susceptible to broken air seals, and tin's

from the '50s or earlier are always a risk but for the most part careful

inspection separates the good from the bad. Also it should be noted

that earlier American quarter pound and larger tins which typically used

'push down, level open' tops are always risk. On the other hand even in

those cases when one finds the tobacco 'bone dry', I have found that

often the tobacco refreshes surprisingly well. There is a loss but the

comparison to current production usually remains favorable, sometimes

quite favorable. Then again perhaps it should not be surprising, after

all the problem with refreshing a thoroughly dried out cigar is

essentially in maintaining structural integrity. All of which leads me

to believe that the oil loss through evaporation is not as absolute or

as irrevocable as is commonly thought.
It should be noted that my exception to your remarks is limited to

English tinned blends and McClelland English style pop-top tin blends.

My experience is that non-aromatic burley blends, unlike virginias and

orientals do not particularly change with age and I have no meaningful

experience with the effects of aging on Continental blends and American

aromatic blends both of which rely on chemicals for their flavor.
A few comments about comparing English blends of twenty years ago to

similar blends of today. First, a comparison today of a '70s tin to

current production is apples and oranges, for the '70s tin has twenty

years of aging. Give a current production tin twenties years of age and

I suspect there will also be a few orgasmic signs.
Second, there have been some substantive changes in English style

blending. Up to the '70s many English manufacturers allowed

significantly longer aging and marrying time for their blends prior to

tinning. Further, some tobaccos, most notably syrian latakia are no

longer available. But even in the case of heavy latakia blends I tend

to believe that a lack of aging before tinning is the major problem. So

that all and all, I am of the view that a tin of current production aged

for three to five years will often reasonably compare to what we were

able to purchase off the shelf in the '70s.
Third, up to the '80s English law precluded the chemical blending style

of the Continent and America aromatics, thus by force the English had to

develop a distinctive style. When production of many English blends

moved to the Continent in the '90s, the Continental blenders replicated

the blends using their chemical flavor techniques. It's not the same.

One is not necessarily better then the other but they are different.

Further my experience has been that the two styles do not mix well. By

that I mean that I can not comfortably switch back and forth between

open tins of similar English and Continental blends. On the other hand

I find that there are Continental blends that if I smoke exclusively for

a while I come to both enjoy and appreciate.
Lastly, I find the logic behind your statement "Vacuum seals only

exhaust about 40% of the air. The remaining air will evaporate the

essential oils, just more slowly." elusive. We are talking about a

sealed container stored under reasonable condition. If cigars (which are

far more difficult to store because of structural considerations) can be

stored under proper conditions for more then a half century, why not a

tin of pipe tobacco?. And if some cigar tobaccos matures with age, why

not likewise some pipe tobaccos? Or have you tossed out your

pre-embargo Havana's as well as your knife-lids?

 

[okiescout]

Great article! Great research! Stuff the editor! Sounds like ignorance or sour grapes.