All Tobacco Will Be Treated Equally in 2014

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misterrogers

Can't Leave
May 16, 2011
347
1
Ohio
Sin taxes are a ridiculous and insulting relic of the past. I'm telling you, it's a nanny state out there and it's only getting worse. Anyone getting that "1984" vibe?

 

leonardw

Starting to Get Obsessed
Dec 30, 2011
153
6
The thing that strikes me is that the cigar lobby is already all over this and talking about how this is such a negative thing. Where is the pipe tobacco community in all this? I'm Canadian so there's not much I can do to fight US legislation, but in the largest market in the world for virtually any product where is the pipe tobacco lobby?
There actually is a lobby group, The Pipe Tobacco Council, and they have been lobbying since before the initial excise change took place in 2009. Here's a brief article (http://www.csdecisions.com/2010/09/21/pipe-versus-ryo-tobacco/). Paul Creasy (President of the new Sutliff Tobacco Co.) has been particularly instrumental in articulating the issue to members of congress.
Unfortunately, they don't appear to be listening. Durbin introduced an equalization excise act a year ago (http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/112/s3081/text) and two similar bills have been introduced this year.

 

lumberjakpipester

Starting to Get Obsessed
Sep 21, 2012
293
0
After reading this thread, I just HAD to go order another 900g, and I noticed 4noggin has DAN tobaccos back in stock, already got mine in the process!

 

spud

Starting to Get Obsessed
Apr 10, 2013
182
0
I live in Nicaragua. There isn't any tax on Nica cigars that I know of. So the easy solution, if you like cigars, is to have a friend in Nica to send you a gift of cigars each month. I don't think there is a tax on "Gifts".

 

auspipe

Starting to Get Obsessed
Feb 19, 2012
222
0
Australia
If it does go through it will be the end of the hobby for me. I cannot afford tobacco in Australia and there is only about 3 choices of pipe tobacco anyway. If the price goes up worldwide, I will have no choice but to give up this hobby which I have really enjoyed the past year. It is not possible to stock up with expensive shipping costs and only being able to order around 300 grams at a time.

 

numbersix

Lifer
Jul 27, 2012
5,449
53
If it does go through it will be the end of the hobby for me. I cannot afford tobacco in Australia and there is only about 3 choices of pipe tobacco anyway. If the price goes up worldwide, I will have no choice but to give up this hobby which I have really enjoyed the past year. It is not possible to stock up with expensive shipping costs and only being able to order around 300 grams at a time.
Sorry to hear it. I hope for your sake it doesn't happen, but I too wonder how long I can last in this hobby. I cannot afford to stock up for the next 10-20 years. The best I could do is maybe 2-3 years. After that, tobacco may become so expensive that I will have to give it up.

 

krizzose

Lifer
Feb 13, 2013
3,100
18,014
Michigan
Scary stuff. As much as we want to castigate the "government," we do live in a representative republic, and in this case I think the majority of citizens are generally supportive of increased tobacco taxes and will only be more so as time goes on. Unfortunately for us, the number of people who know enough or care enough to recognize and understand the difference between cigarettes and pipes/cigars isn't anywhere close to large enough to make an electoral difference.
We're collateral damage from the war on cigarettes, and I think the only chance (if any) we have is to do everything we can to differentiate ourselves from the cigarette lobby, not join forces with them. The bottom line is that cigarettes are lethal, and everyone knows it. Our focus should be on showing how pipes/cigars are hobby related, not habit related, and that we're not talking about addiction-driven daily ingestion of carcinogens that drives up health care costs for everyone. The pipe/cigar lobby should be educating legislators about pipes/cigars, while tobacco, are simply not the killers that cigarettes are, and hopefully the little niche that exists now can be maintained. I'm not at all hopeful, however.

 

numbersix

Lifer
Jul 27, 2012
5,449
53
@krizzose I pretty much have to agree with what you say.
...we do live in a representative republic,
I think only in the most idealistic sense is this true. Politicians won't stay in power or have the funds for elections unless they are willing to play ball with wealthy patrons (corporations, etc). The avg politician represents the ones who get them into office, and that's not the voters but the ones with the deepest pockets. All we voters get is a lot of lip service and a bunch of broken promises.
(I hope that's not too political a statement for the forum. It's definitely not meant as an attack on a single party - but if I done wrong, feel free to edit).

 

krizzose

Lifer
Feb 13, 2013
3,100
18,014
Michigan
I generally agree with all of those comments, but I have a couple rebuttals on the details.
I think the proof is in the pudding; where are the grass-roots movements up in arms over smoking bans or tobacco taxes? They don't exist, but they certainly do on the anti side, and are only getting stronger. Sure, it's true that most people don't like having their taxes raised, but most people don't smoke and don't give a shit if a smoker's consumption taxes go up. The non-smokers may in fact see the tobacco taxes as a way to prevent or mitigate any future general tax increases that would affect themselves.

 

krizzose

Lifer
Feb 13, 2013
3,100
18,014
Michigan
As for the taxing of them....I think "taxation without representation" was mentioned in some document or another, a long time ago, and that's exactly what this is. Our......President, is counting on smokers to not have any support in DC (they don't) and for this new tobacco tax to fly through almost completely unchallenged, and it probably will, considering he has the republicans so concerned about the gun control fight they probably won't give this a second thought. Other things might get yanked from the budget, but this is one that'll probably make it through because smokers seem to be either too meek, or too stupid, to raise the hell necessary to put a stop to things like this.
Mike, I don't see how a tax proposed by and approved by Congress and the President could be considered taxation without representation. The rest of this quote is exactly my point: there is no popular support to roll back tobacco taxes, and increasing tobacco taxes would almost certainly gain a legislator favor from his constituents, not reduce it. I don't like it any more than you do, but I really believe that is the way it is. We pipe/cigar smokers are a tiny minority in this country, and there is nothing in the Bill of Rights that says "Congress shall make no law respecting the establishment of a tobacco tax," and thus we have no protection from the will of the majority. More people want (or don't care about) higher tobacco taxes.

 

dragonslayer

Lifer
Dec 28, 2012
1,026
7
Pittsburgh
Stock up! There is always hope, the lobbyists won't stop and Obama will be gone soon enough, and nothing is permanent in Washington. What a hypocrite on tobacco sin taxes, he does smoke.

 

cavendish

Part of the Furniture Now
Jan 22, 2013
806
1
I've already a plan in place and it's already started. I'm in the process of stocking up the cellar but it will take alot of time. When the prices do go up it will be almost at par with us here in CDA. If it gets bad enough I will just quit buying tobacco, run out my stock and give it up. The governments in our two countries want as much money as they can get before everything comes to a gringing hault. They don't want people to smoke b/c it costs too much for healthcare so they raise taxes on tobacco and tell us that it's for 'this or that'. Raising prices causes people to quit smoking and they lose more money. So they raise taxes on tobacco again and again thinking it will put money in their pocket or fund other areas and it doesn't.
Smoking isn't a necessity for me, if it gets too costly to buy it I might grow it or just give it up. Giving it up won't put money in their pockets and that's fine by me. I say ALL politicians take a 50% wage cut for 2yrs and then see how much money they save!!!

 

dhizzy

Part of the Furniture Now
Aug 29, 2011
649
1
I'm with Mike on this one. Washington and government in general has a spending problem, not a revenue problem.

 
Apr 26, 2012
3,342
5,130
Washington State
I disagree with those that say the Gov. wants to take away our tobacco and cigars. They don't want to take tobacco away because it generates revenue for them. As much as it sucks its a smart move on their part, because they know people are going to pay. When I was like 12 years old cigarettes were like $1.09 a pack. This morning while getting a coffee at the convenient store I noticed they were $7.50 a pack. That's absurd but people pay it.
Its just like when you go to a movie or a ball game. The consession stands charge outrageous prices on their beverages and food because they know people will pay for it. Its a good business decision but it sucks for us the consumer. The Gov. is following the same business practice.

 

numbersix

Lifer
Jul 27, 2012
5,449
53
Did anyone besides numbersix read my post? The article mentioned at the top is false and untrue.
I don't have time to read the actual budget right now, but Sam brings up a good point. I wouldn't say that the website linked at top is untrue, but the author does state:
So don’t be at all surprised if the proposal from the Obama Administration includes tax hikes on pipe tobacco and large cigars, imposing substantial new costs on consumers and retailers.
The keyword is "if". The author of the article is merely speculating, but even if he's wrong this time as Sam believes (and I hope he's correct), it does seem to be only a matter of time anyway.
But at least right now it appears we may have dodged another bullet.

 

krizzose

Lifer
Feb 13, 2013
3,100
18,014
Michigan
I'm gonna sum up by saying I'm about to put in a tobacco order at P&C, and then hit the local B&M to look for old tins.

 

tokerpipes

Lifer
Jan 16, 2012
2,042
690
45
Eatonville, WA
Live in Florida. There is already a90% markup from taxes. So it's going to be over 100% markup. Why can't we do like the original tea party did and throw it in the bay...or maybe the guys creating the taxes?

 

plateauguy

Lifer
Mar 19, 2013
2,412
18
If you don't like what your representatives are doing, contact them, and if they don't respond - don't vote for them.
We are still a republic, at least for now, and Obama only has 3 1/2 more years (I hope). Things might change - don't count on it. Once the government gets a source of money they can't seem to let go.
By the way, I'm buying tobacco every month from my Tinderbox and Smokingpipes.com. I'd love to buy from P&C but they won't ship to Washington state.

 
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