Conversational Rules of the Road

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mso489

Lifer
Feb 21, 2013
41,210
60,433
Conversation is regularly declared dead, but talk jabbers on, whether it rises to conversation or not. Here are a few rules of the road by which I measure the quality of conversation, or whether talk rises to the level of conversation at all. Add any you feel are important.

1) Conversation requires a true balance so everyone participating whether between two people or a larger group, gets equal time. The further the talking strays from this, the less conversation takes place.

2) Good conversation assumes an equality between speakers, at least for the purposes of the moment. Someone may preside to prompt obeying the rules of the road, but no one should presume to prevail. That's a meeting or briefing. No conversation there.

3) Conversation requires good will, even when people have established known differences. For conversation, people assume good intent and wish people well.

4) Conversation allows humor, word play, and fresh insight. No one wraps a joke around another's neck as if it were a serious remark.

5) But people stay on track unless there is agreement that the subject will change.

Good conversation is sadly rare and requires skills not widely cultivated. When it occurs it is golden, and best of all, memorable. Story tellers and party raconteurs are valuable people, but they should never think they are promoting conversation. Often, they are actually preventing it. Theirs is a high art, but it isn't conversation.

What would you add to elevate talk toward true conversation?
 

mso489

Lifer
Feb 21, 2013
41,210
60,433
cosmic, not at all. This is one of my soapboxes from adolescence or before. I hope it's not a set piece, but it is heart felt. Conversation is so good when it actually occurs, and so rare, I feel it is worth promoting. Since many or most Forums posts amount to a conversation, I thought it might be useful. Since this is a subject I'm interested in, I observe those who shout people down, but often feel sorry for them rather than angry with them, because I think they want a good conversation they will never have. I've been to one or two dinner parties that were actually conversations; I almost went into mourning for the rarity of it.
 

shanez

Lifer
Jul 10, 2018
5,188
24,083
49
Las Vegas
3) Conversation requires good will, even when people have established known differences. For conversation, people assume good intent and wish people well.

I think this is often lost or hard to express through this typed medium we call the internet. There are a number of people here, however, that I think if met face to face over a cup of coffee or whatnot would better be able to show this.
 

ophiuchus

Lifer
Mar 25, 2016
1,557
2,052
Thank you for your soapbox.

Diminishing respect for convention, institution and authority and a growing intolerance for the opposing point of view erode culture, and conversation is among the casualties.
 
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philobeddoe

Lifer
Oct 31, 2011
7,404
11,578
East Indiana
In order for conversations to occur, people would need to look up from their goddamn phones for more than 10 seconds. I am truly saddened at the decline of person to person conversing that has occurred in the past ten years or so. This isn’t a dig on millennials, ALL age groups are guilty of this behavior, my 70 year old mother for example, she checks her iPhone at least once every couple of minutes! It just seems like everyone is constantly looking for a better/more important offer; the “other” has a strong pull for many, many people.
 

mso489

Lifer
Feb 21, 2013
41,210
60,433
shanez, the internet resigned from conversation decades ago, almost at inception. So I am infusing these contrarian ideas. And yes, essentially conversation is face-to-face, another contrarian idea perhaps.
 
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python

Administrator
Staff member
Apr 8, 2009
3,756
7,251
Maryland
pipesmagazine.com
I would add that one of the keys to conversation is to actually listen to what is being said and to comprehend it. Do not just sit thinking of what you want to say and wait for someone to stop talking so that you can say it.

Also, conversations require an open mind. If you think that you are right about something, you can tend to disregard things without consideration and it may prevent a good conversation and possibly avoid learning something that you may not have previously known.

Even if you disagree with something, truly listening and comprehending can help you better understand the other person's perspective of something and will promote very interesting conversations. And by understanding their perspective, thoughts, and beliefs, it can help to avoid turning a good conversation into an argument.

Also, don't try to change someone's mind on anything. Sometimes the best thing to do is agree to disagree. That way future conversations can take place with a pleasant atmosphere.
 

mso489

Lifer
Feb 21, 2013
41,210
60,433
python, excellent points! Listening is at least half the art and should have been in my original post! Something tells me python is an accomplished conversationalist.
 

Casual

Lifer
Oct 3, 2019
2,577
9,420
NL, CA
I second all the advice above. To have a conversation, you have to want to hear what other people actually think. That often means polite disagreement, which is rarer these days.

I’m neither surprised nor offended when I meet people who think differently than I do — for when do you ever totally agree with anyone? But more and more, people are surprised and offended when I don‘t agree with them. There’s a minimum amount of goodwill one needs to actually have a conversation.
 

Bengel

Lifer
Sep 20, 2019
3,116
14,243
3) Conversation requires good will, even when people have established known differences. For conversation, people assume good intent and wish people well.
I think this is often lost or hard to express through this typed medium we call the internet. There are a number of people here, however, that I think if met face to face over a cup of coffee or whatnot would better be able to show this.
In a word Civility, thank you Tom for posting this to "discuss" ;)
 
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Bengel

Lifer
Sep 20, 2019
3,116
14,243
I second all the advice above. To have a conversation, you have to want to hear what other people actually think. That often means polite disagreement, which is rarer these days.

I’m neither surprised nor offended when I meet people who think differently than I do — for when do you ever totally agree with anyone? But more and more, people are surprised and offended when I don‘t agree with them. There’s a minimum amount of goodwill one needs to actually have a conversation.
And we learn from one another:)
 

jttnk

Lifer
Dec 22, 2017
1,654
10,267
Phoenix, AZ
Great thread! Thank you MSO. It reminded me to check my listening and conversation skills.

Interesting thoughts generated. I’m in sales and it struck me how much communicating I do is electronic and how little face to face to face I have anymore. Many of my biggest clients and vendors I have never met! Some never even spoken to on the phone, just email.

Maybe my thought is more on communication rather than conversation, so forgive me if I’ve lead the thread astray.
 

Bengel

Lifer
Sep 20, 2019
3,116
14,243
Great thread! Thank you MSO. It reminded me to check my listening and conversation skills.

Interesting thoughts generated. I’m in sales and it struck me how much communicating I do is electronic and how little face to face to face I have anymore. Many of my biggest clients and vendors I have never met! Some never even spoken to on the phone, just email.

Maybe my thought is more on communication rather than conversation, so forgive me if I’ve lead the thread astray.
I think you have hit on an important point a loss of really knowing each other.
 

sablebrush52

The Bard Of Barlings
Jun 15, 2013
19,625
44,844
Southern Oregon
jrs457.wixsite.com
I would add that one of the keys to conversation is to actually listen to what is being said and to comprehend it. Do not just sit thinking of what you want to say and wait for someone to stop talking so that you can say it.
Well...What the hell would be the point of that?

Also, conversations require an open mind. If you think that you are right about something, you can tend to disregard things without consideration and it may prevent a good conversation and possibly avoid learning something that you may not have previously known.
But...but...The ONLY reason I'm donating any of my irreplaceable time is to enlighten you and bathe you in the reflected glow of my brilliance. What could you possibly have to contribute?

Even if you disagree with something, truly listening and comprehending can help you better understand the other person's perspective of something and will promote very interesting conversations. And by understanding their perspective, thoughts, and beliefs, it can help to avoid turning a good conversation into an argument.
I can see some sense to this, as painful as it might be to actually listen to the drooling content of others discourse, there might be something to this "understanding their perspective" business to the extent that I might better diagnose their drooling fallacies and be in a position to correct and enlighten them.
To have a conversation, you have to want to hear what other people actually think.
An excellent reason not to engage in conversations. I never want to hear what others have to say. This has saved me a lot of time.
In order for conversations to occur, people would need to look up from their goddamn phones for more than 10 seconds.
Good lord, why? Have you taken a good look at what's beyond the screen? I can find weather temperatures for Timbuktu on my iPhone. And, traffic alerts! I've set up siri so that she sounds just like Moneypenny and she will happily do whatever I request. What the hell else do I need?

I'm going to go watch some self proclaimed YouTube pipe smoking guru so I can ridicule him.

Bye!
 
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